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Restrictors to make bikes 600cc, and up, LAMS compliant...

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by toast, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. "Free Restrictors on Selected Suzukis"... unfortunately not something you see on any Australian Suzuki site:

    From the horses mouth:
    I currently have a 17 year old CBR250RR. It's a great bike, but I am about to sell my car and really want something reliable (no surprises), smooth, easy to ride, sports ride position and Learner/Provisional Legal in the ACT.

    The Suzuki GSX650F fits the bill (except for being non LL). But, Suzuki Australia doesn't see the need to make the ECU restrictor available to the Aussie consumer.

    The bike is 216 kg dry. Add 68 kg for LAMS and you have a 42 kw power limit. The UK restrictors are for a 33 bhp limit, which is quite a bit less than what LAMS would allow.

    I have no idea what bureacratic non-sense has caused this restrictor to be completely held back from the Australian learner market.

    Another thing that puzzles me is that we have Ducati and Hyosung making Restrictors available for some of their bikes, but no one else. Also, the MRAA doesn't address this situation.

    Time for an answer, a decent answer that gives everyone a good reason why manufacturer restrictors are not a good option (other than an obvious 'cos peeps will just remove/bypass them' - this argument is invalidated by the fact that riders can buy bikes without them anyway).

    I could get this bike now with the free ECU and then provide proof to Suzuki of my full license a year down the track and have them swap out the ECU for the real deal. Easy. Or, I trade in the bike for one of the super-sport bikes. Either way, they get at least one sale they otherwise might not have (I bought a CBR250RR, didn't I?).
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. i am assuming that suzuki australia would have to complience separatly every single model with and without restrictors. Backwards compadibility is a legal no no.

    Just like the hyosungs
    And it cost money to complience a model not to mention only the ones that came in complince and restricted would be learner legal.

    I got no idea but thus wiould be my reason why they dont do it
  3. Re: Restrictors to make bikes 600cc, and up, LAMS compliant.

    Holy shit! :shock: I actually had to goole it cause I thought you'd mis read the specs, but you're right! :eek:
    That's a bloody heavy bike. There's no way in hell a learner would want it. :?
  4. 216kg (whilst heavy by toays standards) is really pretty easy to manage, and to be honest it actually makes the bike ride better in normal day to day use.

    All this stress about a few kg of weight is a hangover from racing.

    Normal road bikes (no not sports bikes) are often better off with a few extra kgs *dons flame suit* :p
  5. Suzuki already dominate the +250cc learner market with the GS500, so why would they want to compete with themselves for sales. And until the other manufacturers wake up to the fact I guess they've got no incentive to change. Although restricted GSXR600s and VL800s would certainly eat into sales of restricted Hyosung GT/GV650s.
  6. How would anyone know you havnt de restricted the bike after you bought it, there is no dyno test to get a rwc or pink slip??????

    some bikes its as easy as going to the wrecker and changing the tops of the carbs or changing the muffler or ecu chip

    why dont learners just want to learn on a cb250 etc anymore, much easier
  7. Well, I'm not interested in the GS500F. The whole point is that I don't want to spend $8k on a bike that I won't keep beyond my Ps.

    I've read how the GSX650F is actually a better handling bike than the GS500F. It's more compliant, turns in better, more stable, handles better all-round.

    It takes side panniers and a top box well, which is just what I want (not gonna have a car).
  8. Nothing any rider organisations can do about this - it's purely a commercial decision that Suzuki (or any manufacturer) makes. They base it on the demand. If they don't believe it would sell then they won't bother with it.

    The ACT already has the widest range of LAMS bikes available since there is no capacity limit on LAMS there - just a power to weight ratio. The competition is pretty fierce already so I can't see the local Suzuki dealers going to a lot of work for the pretty low sales it would mean.
  9. What's to stop people removing the restrictors?
  10. With the Hyosungs and the Ducati Monsters that were restricted, if it was done by a dealer they had to notify the RTA that it had been done.

    AFIK the Hyosung is a restriction that you can fix yourself. I imagine if you crashed and the insurance company found out that you've de-restricted it then your claim may be disallowed.

    I think the ease of derestriction may be a reason that Suzuki is reluctant to introduce this.

    Anyway, there's a hell of a choice with the ACT LAMS (even more than other places) and what makes you so sure that you'll be ready for a more powerful bike after 12 months? :roll:

    I must confess as well to a certain amusement with people saying that they know that they will need a more powerful bike at the end of their P's. I still think it's a d1ck sized thing... :p
  11. What's to stop people buying the unrestricted bike in the first place? The law, insurance, public indemnity cover, loosing everything if you crash it.

    If you couldn't buy an unrestricted bike with a restricted license, then yeah, it is logical to assume people will get it and then de-restrict it. But that isn't the case.

    That's a good question. With a bike like the GSX650F, it isn't about hooning, it's about a smooth and enjoyable ride. It's also about buying a new bike that I don't have to sell anytime soon, and getting the benefits of a great bike, now.

    I've read a few people comparing the GS500F to the GSX650F and they say that the 650 is a much better bike for beginners. It's easier to ride, more compliant, safer even, easier to cruise on, etc.

    I could get a naked bike, but that isn't what I want.
  12. But all that allows for is more old dungers with 660+cc engines. And Harley's. Same thing really. It's not really any better.
  13. Of course there's also several Triumphs and Motoguzzis and VN1600 Kawasakis etc on the list as well.

    If it's ease of handling, more compliant etc. etc. then buy an F650 BMW with ABS - take you anywhere at illegal speeds, great commuter and touring bike and will still show up a lot of sports bikes with its cornering ability. I've ridden a few and they are one of the most under-rated bikes on the market.

    Or an Aprilia Pegaso if you want Italian .

    Of course the fact that they aren't as fast as a GSX won't have anything to do with your rejecting them will it? :LOL: :LOL:
  14. The reality is dude that alot of people look foward to changing bikes. I thought id be keeping my Zx10 for a long time but im ready to trade up to something different now.

    Half the fun of riding is parking your ass on different bikes.
  15. Looks like a nice bike. But, it's a single cylinder and is an Enduro bike.

    Nice try, lol - but I can already easily get into illegal speeds on the 250RR.

    I agree, riding different types of motorbikes is great fun.

    However, today I rode the Suzuki GSX500F and it was fun - completely different to my 250RR. However, in so doing, I have realised that I don't want to own a two-cylinder motorbike.

    The point of restricting bikes, that otherwise do not fit the LAMS scheme, is to increase options available to learners and provisional riders (ie. to give customers more choice).

    It's a win win solution.

    In Suzuki's case, the work is already done - the ECUs are available overseas and the bikes they might like to make the ECUs available for are already complianced. What will change with the new ECU is the level of emissions the engine might create.

    Compliance would be a snatch (same bike, just different power and emissions).
  16. i read everything i could find....but am still not sure, if i buy a GSXR600 in Australia from the trading post or something....can i buy just the restrict or, or restricted ECU from over seas and just fit it myself here, and once i have a full license change it back? that would be handy
  17. I was thinking that the bike would have to be complied with the changed ECU, so that the re-tuning the ECU provides does not increase emissions. Although, it is like adding an aftermarket ECU to a car, so theoretically it shouldn't require re-compliance.

    I guess the argument could go like this:

    1. The issue is LAMS kw/tonne restriction.
    2. Adding a restrictor to an already ADR compliant bike brings it to within LAMS restriction.
    3. Suzuki make the restrictor, so it is OEM and obtainable for that model.
    4. Testing the bike on a dyno would confirm compliance with the LAMS restriction.
    5. Therefore the bike could be submitted for LAMS approval.

    This is the form for the ACT:
    http://www.rego.act.gov.au/assets/PDFs/Bike Approval.pdf

    The only thing is that the restricted ECUs in the UK are for 33bhp, which is well below LAMS for that bike:

    (33bhp/24kw) / (284kg: 216kg dry weight + 68kg LAMS fuel/rider) x (1000 for tonne value) = (84kw/tonne).

    This bike can have a maximum output of 42kw and yeild less than 150kw/tonne (147kw/tonne is the actual rounded amount).

    However, for a GSX-R600, 33bhp ECU might be about right, as the bike is quite light.

    The added advantage of having a restricted bike is that when the bike becomes unrestricted, you have already had a year or so of experience with the bike. I can see no downside to having restrictors on bikes.
  18. http://www.fiinternational.com/
    they make kits for heaps of models that restrict it to 33bhp...25kw.
    would this be ok if you brought from them and fitted it to a gsxr600 ('06 or '07), than did the dyno to prove and any other forms of proof that culd be thort of?
  19. No, you can only ride bikes that are approved by the Government - and they'll only approve stuff that has the correct power/weight ratio when new, not stuff modified afterwards. Only way it would work is if Suzuki themselves started selling restricted GSXRs (and why would they since they effectively already have the +250cc market to themselves anyway).
  20. wats the form for approval for then?