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Redbook v Private v Dealer Bike Values - Why the big varienc

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by Chief, Jul 16, 2006.

  1. As lots of people here are into buying and selling bikes, I have been doing some research on bike values.

    There is a huge discrepency between the Redbook value and the prices being asked by private sellers and dealers. For example take a Honda CBR600F '98 model. (And by the way, my reasearch shows similar results for most bikes.) The Redbook National average price - private sale* $5,000 - $5,900 a sample of private sellers from Bikesales.com.au $6,100 - $7,500 and a sample from Bikepoint.com.au (dealers) $6,700 - $7,700. Now I understand why a dealer price is different to a private seller ... * Private Sale Price Guide may be different to a dealer's retail price because the dealer prepares the bike more thoroughly, both mechanically and aesthetically, and provides a consumer warranty.

    However, why is there such a difference to the Redbook in general? Are the people selling bikes "dreaming". It would appear that everyone inflates their asking price by at least 20%-30%. Is this the norm? What do you guys pay?
  2. I paid 4k for my bike,

    National average price - private sale* $3,500 - $4,100

    was within the range
  3. Maybe private sellers put a higher price than they are prepared to accept in the ad?

    Maybe redbook is based on records from change of registration and people are undervaluing the price they paid to save on stamp tax.
  4. Hadn't thought about the stamp tax angle. Good point.
  5. Bikesales and bikepoint both have really inflated prices. There are some good prices, but not often.
    I suspect this is because they are both very popular websites, so people have no trouble moving bikes whatever price they ask.
    My dad recently advertised a Toyota Hilux in both the local paper and on Carpoint.com.au. He says he received 5 times as many calls from the website as he did from the paper, so obviously bikes advertised on the web will attract higher prices easier.

    Ebay and the local paper always have better prices and are where I've bought all my bikes.
    My current bike was advertised for about $6500. Redbook says around $4000. I paid around $5000, so the seller was massively inflating above what he really expected (although he wouldn't agree to the redbook value, and fair enough too).
  6. Redbook prices are aload of sh*t IMO, and are there only to cater for bike dealers when they're offering you a trade in price on your bike...

    I don't know how redbook prices work, but I can only imagine that it's based ona fixed depreciation rate, and doesn't take into account any other variables.

    In the end, no one can argue that the bike is worth less than what people are prepared to pay for it.
  7. I always inflate my advertised price to take into account the inevitable negotiation that will occur. I would be surprised if most people didn't do that.
  8. Redbook is crap, like cammo says I think its main purpose is to justify dealers and insurance companys valuations. So they pay less.

    Try going into a dealer and asking to buy a bike at redbook price, they will laugh you out of the shop. But the other way around when they are offering tradein they will insist redbook is correct.

    Clasifieds are always $500 over what they expect to sell. Everyone wants to haggle on price so you work it into the advertised price.
  9. Found my bike on one of the bike sites. Yeah asking price was a bit inflated but knocked him down in price.

    As 4angus pointed out, most inflate then haggle.
  10. Redbook _is_ based on sale prices not advertised prices, advertised prices are lots higher than what most private sale bikes actually sell for (250's can be an exception to that rule sometimes).

    As for the dealer prices on it I've traded in my last few bikes and have gotten a price near the top end of the dealer range from redbook each time (so that isn't far off).
  11. as some one said red book is based on ACTUAL figures, there are dozens of reasons they dont reflect advertised prices.
  12. Spot on.
  13. I did. Ended up selling it on Ebay. I got two emails and one call from the Bikesales ad. One guy offered me less than half "book value". The other two were general enquiries.

    Depends on your target demographic. It may have been those who read Carpoint, rather than who reads your local paper.

    The benefit of advertising on Carpoint/Bikepoint is that it costs bugger all to do so. You get to write a big story about the vehicle with up to 4 photos. Try advertising in the paper with a photo and see what it'll cost you, what with a usual 20 word limit before the ad starts to cost more than what you're selling.

    I've also got a car for sale on Carsales.com.au. I advertised it in the Trading Post as well. I got a person actually come round to check the car, and take it for a test ride who read about it in TPP. Carsales got me on email, a chap offering me $15,000 below the car's "book value".

    By the same token, I found my current bike in Bikesales, it having the better web structure and a better organised database. Bikepoint has about 4 entries for the Blackbird and similar, but under different "model" names. My old CBR1000F is similar. I saw CBR1000 Fireblades being sold under the same classification as my old barge. It's a problem with the database and the people using it, who funnily enough don't know their own bike from other unrelated models...

    Read "expensive". As someone else said, people "dream" about what their bikes are worth. A mate's looking for a VTR1000 or a GSX-750F. A few of the sellers are advertising their bikes close to the sale price of current models. Some are two years old or more. But some also have more realistic prices, and some are bargains.

    In the end, it doesn't matter where you sell it. What counts which is more popular and what people are prepared to pay for your vehicle. Bikepoint, Bikesales or the Trading Post don't really guarantee anything like that.

    And don't get me started on twats who think that a bike is stuffed if it has more than 15-20,000 km on it, particulary when we're talking about litre plus sports/sports tourers.
  14. I know some dealers in Sydney are doing some pretty crazy deals on new bikes - like run-outs of last years models.
    New Kawi's, and Honda 600 sports for under $15,000... sometimes under $14,000.

    If you can buy a new one for that, then obviously you screw the resale on the previous year models before that.

    There's also market reputation and availability. Your Hilux will retain a much higher percentage of it's new price in resale than a Commodore will.
    Likewise, you will get better resale off a Manual Commodore than an Automatic one because practically ALL of the ones out there are auto - so you pay extra to get the one you want.
  15. I had problems selling on bikesales. I think bikesales seems high becuase the bikes that are overpriced don't sell and stay on the site for months. Good price bikes sell quick and the adds get removed quickly.

    Funny that I got my bike from a Dealer and sold it on ebay a few months after for a higher price :)
  16. they're not? Isn't that why they make it hard to change tyres - you should be buying a bike with new tyres!
  17. I paid less then red book "Private Sale" and I reckon I got a great deal from the dealer. I think it really depends on market forces eg supply and demand. Also I think new bike prices affect it too. Rossi R6 Reps at Peter Stevens for like 12K (any left?). Why pay 12k for one 2 years old!. It encourages new bike purchasing rather than 2nd hand. This in turn deflates the 2nd hand market.

    Example of Wishfull thinking:

    Ducati Monster 800ie 2004 plate, 7,500km pretty good nick but hasn't been looked after really well.

    Asking $14K down from $15.5K.

    Red Book:
    New price $14,500
    Private Sale: $8.7K - $10.3K

    Result = I think he might be in for a hard time selling it unless he can target a Noob or someone who dosen't care about the price.
  18. This may also indicate, because the majority are autos, that most people only want an auto.

    I'm trying to sell a manual Commodore SS (2002). I've had one semi-serious enquiry, where the person took it for a drive, and commented about manuals being rare. I've had one other enquiry, via Carsales, with the fellow offering me less than half its book value via email.

    Because the person who took it for a drive commented that manuals were rare. I would have thought then, I'd get more inquiries. But I haven't. I'm asking about average price. The car has 50,000 km. Most examples of this year, or even later, have up to 100,000 km. So, the car has a few selling points. But as I said, it's still on the market.

    Could it be that petrol prices is putting people off? If so, how's the new Commodore, which is bigger and heavier than its predecessor, going to sell?

    According to my stats, 4,000 people have viewed the summary page, while about 300 have viewed the full details page of my Carsales ad. The person who actually came and looked at the car saw it in the print version of the Trading Post.
  19. Many people advertise at a higher price than what they expect to allow for haggling. Some people are also dumb enough to think that if something is being advertised for say $5000 then their bike is also worth $5000, so you end up with many people trying to get much more than what their bike is worth.

    Redbook is usually accurate when it comes to sale prices, but many confuse the Advertised price with the sale price which is usually much less. Also note that Redbook lists an average price based on fiar condition for certain kms. So this is something else you need to look at when making your comparison.
  20. The redbook value is particully erronious when it comes to older bikes.

    Bikes hold their value better then cars and for some reason redbook doesn't take account of this.

    If you want to know the true value of you bike, look up the ads, find the best value bike of you model and subtract $3-500.

    As some people suggest, the higher priced bikes in the ads, just don't sell at that price, but the above formula will still be greater then the redbook value on older bikes.

    Another thing is, more than half of owners think they have a vehicle in above average condition. Consider your vehicle at roughly average condition and that will give you a better idea of what it's worth and what price to advertise.