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red still means stop doesn't it?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by josh909, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. has anyone else noticed the alarming trend for motorists to run the red in order to make it through a set of lights?

    tonight on the way home from work, on at least 5 seperate occasions when i was waiting at the head of the traffic, the lights going the other way would go red and vehicles that still hadn't entered the intersection would speed up and barrel through :?

    a couple really stand out though - at one a bike came racing through the red and was almost taken out by car that went as soon as the lights went green and more alarmingly a truck that went through despite by my estimations being a good 20m before the intersection when the light went red :eek:

    be careful out there people.
  2. Hey, josh, red is sydney green, didn't you know that??
    RC would have said this if he had got to it first, (and I agree), always leave a momentary pause before taking off on YOUR green; the red lights are not being policed, only used to raise revenue where there is a camera, and as much as it's nice to get to the head of the queue, it's fatal if you're first off the line, only to get cleaned up by a red-runner!
  3. Just get into the habit of checking left & right before you take off.

    Saved my bacon a few times now :)
  4. Josh you are absolutely right, it's an epidemic out there. That's why, and yes, I know I've said this before, that I NEVER go as soon as the green goes on. I always wait a few seconds, even if the bozos behind me get stroppy, cos I'm not going to be out in the middle of the interesection and get cleaned up by some moron who doesn't know, or doesn't CARE, that red means STOP.
  5. Perhaps they should lengthen the yellows...
  6. So what happens at intersections where you can quite clearly see that all the cross-traffic is either non-existent or stopped?
  7. just gives em more time to accelerate through.

    I got into the habit years ago of looking as I start to move off and if I cant see wait for the truck beside me to move to act as a road block just in case.

    Mind you I had a prang 2 years ago when a car did a right turn on me as I rolled through an amber light.
  8. Yup. That's a_very_handy tactic. Although, as far as vision through an intersection goes, if you can't see, just get the phuq forward. If you have to sit out the red light on the far side of the pedestrian crossing, so be it.
  9. Given a massive proportion of accidents (and deaths) happen at intersections, I'm pretty happy to stick to the lights system.

    Right of way is the fundamental principle of road use. In most static intersections (eg roundabouts), we understand these principles and give way where required (hmm subject to debate). Traffic signals give rise to dynamic right of way - although your road position does not change, your right of way periodically does. Although lights direct traffic, the do not actually physically arrest vehicle movement when they don't have right of way - it requires compliance by motorists, who in turn place trust in other motorists to have obeyed the signals.

    So, what's the fundamental issue when people start running lights? The first issue is that people can't implicitly trust the signals to garauntee inhindered passage... and the reason why a lot of motorists still choose to head check regardless of what the lights say.

    Another core issue is that speeds through intersections are not as a generally distinguished from free flowing traffic, and hence are most often the same. Enough trust (and enforcement) exists for people to whiz through lights at 80kph confident that no-one wants to impede them.

    If you really want people to stop at lights, install pop up tyre shredders on the white line :LOL:

    IK makes a good point though, the dynamic signals system tends to be a bit of a joke when you are staring both ways at an empty road, only to stopping on principle. From an enforcement point of view, running a red in heavy traffic is not distinguished from running a red in non-existent traffic - both are deemed to be as offensive, when clearly one presents danger to life, and the other one is an idelogical enforcement.
  10. I have certainly noticed more people running the red. What I also believe, although have nothing to back me up other than opinion is that there has been changes made to sequencing. To be more specific I used to remember when there was certain amount of time when all the lights were red at an intersection before one direction was given the green. I think now that delay has been shortened so when one direction is red the other is given green almost immediatly. I say this is an opinion as I have seen countless times when people making right hand turns for example are just entering the intersection when oncoming traffic is given a green (where they would be facing a red arrow). Sorry is hard to explain without a diagram. Anyhow seems to me that to make traffic flow better the delays between changing directions of traffic flow are much shorter. as intersections with red light cameras, seems that they would be snapping away, but arnt (and I know there is a camera currently at the intersection in question). Im guessing that there must be some report around that vic roads have used to imporve traffic flow by taking advantage of reaction times or some such thing. There would be some expensive study around im sure.

    For me I feel that teh less time you spend in an intersection, the less chance you have of being in an accident. So if you travel as fast as your biek will allow you will that make you more safe???? Perhaps that may not work as an explanation for the officer who next pulls you over for speeding. But seriously I always check before moving off for the red light runner.


    I know most accidents happen at intersections, and
  11. shits me to tears, worse than the farkers that change lanes without indicating :evil:

    i know its not as dangerous as the 'speed through' red light runners, but the ones that really shit me are the ones that run the right turn red. every day, without fail, i'll see someone do it at one of the 3 major intersections i have to go through. these ppls are not going fast, they could stop on a dime at the speed they're travelling, but i frequently see a-holes crossing the line after our light has gone green. i used to love giving the old beaten up kingsy a bit of stick off the line and scaring these pricks shitless, i guess my size intimidation factor has been somewhat diminished since i started riding :?
  12. And I agree. Now correct me if I'm wrong here. I remember years ago in Victoria they used to have a flashing yellow that PRECEDED the green which gave the intersection time to clear.

    Why was that abandoned?? Let me guess; to speed up the traffic flow. Understandable, but flawed if it is going to contribute to more accidents.

    It's all in the timing, isn't it?
  13. I think you've got a very valid point, tones, and I hadn't thought about it that way till you described it. It might have been done in the interests of speeding up traffic flow, but surely it has increased the risks, given that people run the red, even at low speeds.
    I don't know about Melbourne, but you can bet here in Sydney that just when you thought NO-ONE more could run/trickle/blast through the looooonnnngg red, someone else will!! I've had countless occasions when the "green" traffic has been held up for what seems like minutes while these idiots finish their illegal turns.
  14. Some of the older lights in back streets leave the Red on as the Amber comes on just before the Green.

    Kinda like the starting lights at the Drag Races.

    And I treated them as such :shock: :p :wink:

    Mind you only if I could see if anything was coming.
  15. yeh my friend got rammed in the driver side door by an idiot running a red light...

    had to take her to court since she was uninsured and stuff, but he got the dosh eventually :)
  16. These things aren't a stupid idea. There is only one I know of, the pedestrian crossing in Warrandyte across from the footy club still does the clearing sequence, but most drivers just drag off as soon as it goes off red. I suspect if you installed these across the country, drivers would still just put the pounder down as soon as it was off red...

    Anyway, most of us who are switched on take a peek at the lights in opposite direction so can get the jump anyway, don't we? :)

  17. Quite right there. And l have a good look. Wouldn't be the first time I didn't see someone who was behind a pole or a stopped car etc.

    It is easier to wait a sec or two as RC says, than to be in the op shop, or filing cabinet wondering "where the hell did that bastard come from?"

    Even the revenue boys have woken up. They are putting in safety devices to spot the increase speed demon at the yellow/orange light and to catch the moron who cannot see the red cherry. The TV add mentions 3 flashes. 1 for the speed, 2 for the red, and 3 for the dead.

    Keep watching!! They are out to get you!!!

  18. Oh Yeah.

    Here's one for the OFARCs.

    Does anyone remember the lollypop lights????

    It was a large disk with a arm (like a minute hand on a clock) going around continuosly. It would go through the red then to orange then to green , then to orange and around to red again. ou could see where you were in the sequence and how long you would have to wait. And yes there was a orange between the red and green.

    Last one I can remember was on High Street in Glen Iris at the end of the tram lines (in those days) Anyone remember that one?

    I used to go to the Malvern Town Hall on Sat nights to the dance there and my girl lived in the Huntingdale. We used to go to the 20th hole there a bit.