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Red light camera while turning

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by nic, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. Hi

    There goes my perfect record :(, got fined for not obeying traffic signals.
    From what I remember, I turned when arrow was the orange, but truck in front decided to crawl through the intersection.

    Is there any chance fighting this ? If I have to wait until the guy in front clears the intersection before crossing just in case he crawl across it, you would never turn ...



    There must be some tolerance when turning ? No ? I am dreaming ?

    Nic
     
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  2. Seems to me that there was insufficient time for you to enter the intersection and complete your turn.

    The amber light is a warning that says, do not try to enter, it's about to go red.

    Cop it on the chin.
     
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  3. That's how the law's written. You're not supposed to enter an intersection until it's clear to do so - even with a green light. I'd say your chances of fighting it would be pretty slim - though if your record is perfect you may have a chance if you apply for a warning instead of a fine (works for speed cameras).
     
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  4. Odds on any conversation would go as follows.
    You : "so i had entered the intersection before the light had turned red but this truck was just crawling causing me to be in the intersection after it had turned red"
    Mr Plod : "It is your responsibility to make sure you can safely travel through the intersection before you enter it"

    You can see that they are not likely to be sympathetic.
    But I see no harm in trying, obviosly if there is photo evidence then it will show the truck
     
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  5. I don't think you can get a warning for a 3 point offence ..
    I'll just cop it and pay the fine

    Nic
     
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  6. Are you talking about Hoddle st & Vic Pde?
    I’ve been flashed there quite a few times, never received anything in the mail, there is no way you can complete your turn into Vic Pde whilst lights are still green or amber, I'd say that they are trying to snap those that enter the intersection with a red, not those that are already in it.
     
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  7. The Victorian Red Light Camera's do not take a photo until someone crosses the big white line AFTER the Red light is ON.

    To have been done you must've entered the intersection AFTER the red light.

    Go in to the camera office in the city and have a look at the two photo's. The photo angle is usually set up so you can see the traffic lights in the photo. If you're not the vehicle which tripped the camera and are already well into the intersection they shouldn't have booked you.
     
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  8. Good point, I might go in and take a look, I'm pretty certain I went in when the light was orange. The intersection is Elgar & Whitehorse

    Thanks

    Nic
     
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  9. But you can enter an intersection to turn right. There are several intersections around now with clearly marked out "waiting" lanes for right turning vehicles. Given that the area described can hold several vehicles waiting for oncoming traffic to clear, you could argue that the far side of your turn was actually clear but that the vehicle in front of you refused to complete its turn before the lights had changed.
    Thinking about it tho', I'm more inclined to agree with pvda that the flash wouldn't have gone off unless someone or something crossed the line after the red was on. You tellin' the whole truth there, Nic?
     
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  10. Who knows ! Most of the time I forget what I did the day before so 1 month ago anythings possible.... Maybe I was pissed and went through the intersection at warp speed, that's why I got flashed

    Nic
     
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  11. If you do get it mate, lodge an appeal and write a letter to em. I don't know how long you have been riding for, but they do take perfect records into consideration and may give you some leniancy. When i tried to call them they had a massive long answering machine message with details of when they are likely to give leniancy and it is worth appealling. At least give it a try, you can't end up in a worse situation because of it.

    Paul
     
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  12. Always get the photo, even if it costs money. They can get it wrong and for maybe $10, it can be worth it. Especially with bike regos where they are more difficult to read.

    As for the fine, as has been mentioned, I thought the sensors were positioned/timed so that you have to cross the last white stop line after it has gone red. If you have entered the intersection on amber, it won't ping you.
     
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  13. Yeah, go get the photo. A while ago, I've seen a van go forward (he was the first and only car turning right) waiting for the traffic to clear. The traffic only stopped when the lights turned amber and he was right to go. As he was making his turn, the lights turned red (too quick IMHO) and the camera flashed. For such a busy intersection how'd they expect anybody to make a right hand turn? :?
     
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  14. It depends if the truck was already in the intersection before he entered the intersection. Take a look at the picture in the camera office if a penalty turns up. If theres traffic in front of the truck you could say the truck slowed down once in the intersection delaying your judged turning time. Hence you entered the intersection as the truck passed his intersection entry point but it slowed to the point in the intersection that you had to slow. Its a fine line if you can get away with it as the truck must be explained that it slowed adequately enough once it fully entered the intersection inturn delaying your completion.
     
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  15. Ive been flashed while a light was green before, got sent the fine, argued it, didnt have to pay, the camera was faulty.

    IIRC You can approach the give way like if you have a blank arrow (the dotted line) and that is counted as entering an intersection safely, and once you are on the intersection if the light changes red then you can still turn. Ive done this in front of police officers and they have done nothing, even did it on my driving test.

    Fight it if you really dont want the 3 points taken, but other then that its too much of a hassle.
     
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  16. Australian Road Rules (off the NSW RTA site)

    61 Proceeding when traffic lights or arrows at an
    intersection change to yellow or red

    5) If the traffic lights or arrows change to yellow or red while the
    driver is stopped and the driver has entered the intersection, the
    driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do
    so safely.

    http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/pts1-21.pdf

    I think you've got a case to argue here!
     
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  17. As I said in my original reply in this thread the camera doesn't take a photo until someone crosses the line AFTER the Red light comes on.

    If it was you or a car in front of you then your gorne but if you're already in the intersection then you shouldn't get done.

    As I said if your not sure go to the Camera Office and check the photo's, it's free you only pay if you want to keep a copy, and see if your memory and the evidence matches.
     
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  18. i FEEL FER YOU NIC

    Just awhile back in my old saab , i was at a right turn light behind 3 cars , next minute a sees a pope on a bike in the rear view mirror behind me , i senses he wants me for something and i just shrug the sholders , so , red arrow goes green and the cars in front take off , but as i get to the white line IT turns yellow , i had a panic attAck as (do i keep going as the pope is behind) OR (if i keep going do i cop it for entering on a yellow) So , panic took over and i stomped on the anchors and here a squeel from behind and look in the rear mirror to see the pope falling over on his bike , but not completely over....

    so by now i know am even in more big trouble than before :grin: , anyways after the turn , booked for not putting on a seatbelt within 20 meters after taking off and then when i asked the pope if he was pissed for nearly dropping its bike he said this "you could have gone on the yellow" .
    Arseholes.......
    that $225 was worth the laugh :wink: i had and to make IT LIE :roll: ..

    One can not win against the in-sane..
     
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