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Really bad hill start today

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by Milpool, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. So a couple of times now I've overcompensated with throttle on hill start because I am afraid of stalling and ended up doing an unintentional wheelie, nothing huge though. Today was easily the worst; I had filtered to the front of a set of a traffic lights (heaps of room) but the light went green sooner than I was expecting so I freaked out a bit and got the wheel up high enough it scared the shit out of me and I came down crooked. I almost came off but somehow managed to get it stable again. I did notice after coming home though that the gear shifter was a bit bent outwards (the opposite direction than you'd get from a drop) and the only thing I can think of is that I've hit it with my leg but it's hard to remember everything, it all happened really fast.

    From now on I will not be filtering at lights where I'll need to do a hill start until I am way more comfortable with controlling a bike but I really need some advice on taking off from a hill start without being too slow or stalling. I realise I probably dropped the clutch way too quick due to the panic of knowing cars were behind me, but any advice would be great.

    Also I should mention I ride a GPX250 so I am very glad I didn't get anything bigger to learn on. It's just all really frustrating because in every other area I can see clear improvement in my skills every time I ride.
  2. my driveway is a 45 degree uphill slope with a blind corner that people go flying around about 10m away, every time i go for a ride im in hill start hell and have almost dropped my bike a few times. also have a 250 and am glad for that fact!
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  3. Learn how to hold yourself at lights on hills with the clutch and not brake and then apply throttle until satisfied you are going, takes the whole clutch friction motion out of it and you get a good 60 seconds to find it while you wait for the green
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  4. Sounds like you need more practice with throttle and clutch control. Your problem is that you are releasing the clutch too quickly at high revs. You can get away with high revs if you release the clutch slowly. Secret is to roll on the throttle while releasing the clutch slowly. Get to know where your friction point is. You can release the clutch quickly to this point then gradually release it beyond this point. Practice on slight hills then work your way up to steeper hills.
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  5. You don't need a heap of throttle You need to be gentler with releasing the clutch lever.

    Also use your ears When you get to the friction point you will hear it. At that point just take off like normal... give a little more throttle and gently release a little more clutch.
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  6. so you've been riding for a month (on your L's?), have trouble starting off..
    and yet you're filtering to front of traffic and then panicking because cars are behind you?

    mayyybe you should hold off on filtering until you are more confident that that can actually start quickly.

    hate to be the one to state the obvious, but there's a reason learner/Provisional riders aren't supposed to filter...
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  7. Well at least u know it'll do a decent wheelie
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  8. and by "start quickly", I mean pin the 250's throttle and clutch it off the line :D (so much fun!)
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  9. Yeah I totally see what you're saying. I'm actually on open RE so it is legal for me to do but I probably should hold off from now on until I am way more confident.
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  10. Keep practicing high rpm launches and you'll get there. I launch my gs500 at full throttle most of the time and the front hardly lifts. Its all in the clutch control. Taking off less vigorously is so boring.
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  11. Yeah I'll do that on more isolated roads whenever I get the chance. It's weird feeling for a grab point in my hand after driving a manual car for so long.
  12. Rear brake is key.

    • Hold bike stationary on slope with rear brake.
    • Let clutch out to friction point
    • Apply throttle
    Done and done.
    This will let you get engine speed up and pull through the brake without loosing stability.
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  13. What BitSarBitSar said. Don't use front brake to hold yourself as this will interfere with smooth throttle input. You'll be able to do this when more experienced, but for now use rear brake, be in gear with left foot down, then as above.
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  14. I am using the rear brake and not the front. Although I have been applying throttle before letting the clutch out because that's how I do it in a car so I'll try it the opposite way from now on. Thanks
  15. You still need to use throttle, just not as much. If you drive a manual car, use your rear brake much like you'd use the hand brake. Once car/bike starts pulling, then release brake and go.
  16. no no throttle before clutch.
    on my ZZR (same engine/bike basically) for a fast start from lights.. (when filtering)
    crack throttle so it would quickly rev to maybe 8-9grand, and while revs are rising let clutch out and slip it so revs only reach about 6-7grand.
    once clutch is biting, feed in full throttle but balance with less clutch for more bite so revs stay in the 7-9grand mark.. (I'm guessing a bit on the revs, never actually look at tacho coming off the lights)

    this is all within a second or so, so it's not "rev up" then "start slipping clutch"
    gpx/zzr motor is pretty gutless below 6000rpm, so can't really get a fast start below there, and they rev to 13-14, so use them revs :)

    wet clutch can take a lot more abuse than a car dry clutch, so give it some beans! find isolated area and practice your race starts.

    for a normal hill start, not as many revs or urgency, but same deal, hold rear brake on just enough so you don't toll backwards (and no more) revs up to 5 or 6 or so, then slip clutch and balance with more throttle, bike will overcome rear brake and when it starts to (or just before) let rear brake out, and away you go smoothly.
    practice that on flat, then slight rise, then a bit steeper, but really once you get the rhythm the steepness of hill doesn't matter, just takes more revs (and maybe a little leaning forward to keep nose down on really steep hills)
  17. A little extra throttle before clutch. But then hold that amount of throttle, don't keep feeding more until you get to friction point. At that point start slowly feeding throttle, slowly releasing clutch and slowly releasing rear brake.

    Once you do it enough to get the hang it pretty much becomes automatic and you can forget the slowly bit.

    Like all things motorbike, practice is the key.
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    Practice it, and don't kick yourself for stuffing it up. Today's ride for me was fantastic in that I made big progress with starting, stopping and hill starts riding through town and million traffic lights.
    I can't say that I'm any seasoned rider or expert, but the things I consciously did today in an effort to improve:
    1. Realise that if I make a mistake it's quicker to fix it than to get embarrassed, and be okay with a mistake because it's all practice, and;
    2. Keep my eyes up. This made the biggest difference. Instead of looking down and thinking about all the little steps to perform a particular riding move, I repeated in my head what I wanted to do i.e. "take off" or "move forward" or "u turn". Everything else just came.
    That took out the fiddling because you can do things faster than you can name all the steps.
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  19. Thanks for the support Demstar.

    So today I got the nerve up to go for a small ride which turned into a not so small ride through Mt Nebo (Brisbane people will definitely know Nebo). After a rough start with me dropping the bike in the driveway (I still had hold of it so it went down pretty gentle and didn't damage anything.) I had the best time ever. I even found myself at the same place I messed up yesterday and while there was no filtering I did -much- better. I've been practicing what you guys have said on isolated flat roads and I am already making huge improvements in keeping that front wheel down even revving out to 9 or 10 grand towards the end. I'll still be taking those hills a lot slower for a while though.
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  20. Sounds like you may need some further tuition. Maybe contact your Q-Ride provider and ask if they have private on-road tuition available.... if not try some of the other trainers around the place - most are very competent :] I would certainly suggest foregoing filtering until your skills are more established - even though technically legal for you it is still an added risk while your skills are developing.
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