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Real cornering advice

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by robsalvv, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. The pivot steering thread went out of control due to the academics involved [includes me]



    As pennance and to help newbies and riders alike, please check out this link for some helpful and real advice:

    http://bikepoint.ninemsn.com.au/Clubhouse/ExpertQuestions.asp?type=Tech

    Minor aspects of what's said may not be strictly correct in some academically minded folks' opinions... but it makes SFA difference to the practical outcome of riding and cornering better when applying the info.

    Cheers.

    Rob
     
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  2. Rob I got lost in both the technical aspects of that thread, and the spiteful invective generated from one or two of the participants (combatants?)
    But on the weekend I TRIED weighting the OUTSIDE peg, and for the life of me all it seemed to do was to make the bike want to STAND UP?
    I think we analyse stuff too much sometimes, instead of just enjoying it (as I suggested in my tongue-in-cheek quoting of Dr von Schteering.....)
     
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  3. heh. I've tried it before and it worked fine. Last night I tried weighting the outside peg on the delightful right turn sweeper from Citylink to the Westgate and nearly ran wide. I suspect that you're right. Thinking too much sometimes doesn't help.

    I'll go back to counter-steering.

    Oh!.. Nice techniques site, Rob. Whodathort something good might be found on ninemsn?
     
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  4. I've been playing with it a bit (and practicing my cornering too :LOL: ) and it seems to work better if I try to "push off" the outside peg rather when leaning rather then "weight it" when leaning.

    Sounds stupid but the former helps the latter hinders.

    Possible Revelation: Maybe the trick is that it helps at turn in but not so much when you're actually in the corner?
     
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  5. I think that "body position 3" article in the link above answers what the loading up of the outside peg is meant to be about.

    It makes sense to me that loading up the outside peg in isolation would send you wide - but you'd also go wide if you held onto the bars too tight... either way, not good.


    On an slightly related matter, I was following a guy who was on a chook chaser in the city this lunch time. He was heading out to the westgate freeway. He sat stiff backed on his bike, fully plonked on the seat, with near straight arms. I watched from behind and saw how he took the sweeping left over the woorunjeri way bridge and the right hander at the lights to get on the free way.

    His body didn't move one little bit. There was no mass weight shifting, no loading pegs, no pushing, shoving, pulling or anything else. The bike simply leaned over [quite a bit actually] to the lean angle it needed for the speed he was carrying. It was quite elegant, but scary... he had round knobby tyres and he was moving.

    The only way he could have put the bike in a lean was to put a force on the bars i.e. a counter steer input. If everything else you do ultimately ends up with this counter steer input, then you'll turn the bike. In his case, it was so obviously all he did.

    Cheers

    Rob
     
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  6. Rob, I might be miles off base here, but that's how Mike Hailwood used to ride. When he came out here for the Six Hour race all the "hang off the inside and look racy" crowd were really frustrated by the fact that he DIDN'T, but was a lot quicker......
     
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  7. First the disclaimer. I am not expressing an opinion of any kind, I am asking what appears to me to be a simple question, and would appreciate if possible a simple answer......yeah right, like thats gonna happen

    Ok, lets go. This is a quote from the link above.

    "To help clarify all this, there is one question you have to ask in relation to changing - "is lean a result of steer, or is steer a result of lean"? When you steer the bike does it lean, or when you lean the bike does it steer? The correct answer is; when you steer, the bike leans."

    If that is correct how the fcuking hell does it work hands-off? I know it does, YOU know it does...but how?
     
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  8. H600, no one's saying corners can't be ridden without hanging off. Chook chaser guy would have had less lean angle if he'd hung off... he didn't need to at those speeds.

    This put's the SBK and motoGP riders in perspective now doesn't it?

    Racers are hanging way off... and still are leaned all the way over... but this is a ***lesser*** lean angle than they'd need if they were sitting like a lump all stiff on top.

    The other point I was making was about the turn initiation.

    Cheers

    Rob
     
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  9. Ok, I think I get what you mean. Mind you, as a mediocre rider, it's all a bit academic.
    I'll let you take up Inci's post...........
     
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  10. This thread has gone very quiet. Anybody taking a shot at my question?
     
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  11. Well if the others are like me, they're all sick to death of the subject of cornering/counter steering/loading the pegs/whatever other crap is associated with this!!! :? :? :?
     
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  12. Well........I guess I better crawl back under my rock and stay iggnerint.

    In the meantime maybe you could contribute something to the newbie who asked a simple question about air filters and absolutely nobody helped a damn.
     
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  13. Don't take is personal-like, inci, it's just that it was pounded to death the other night........
    (and it's got nothing to do with panniers either..)
     
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  14. Sorry Inc - wasn't trying to be cold..... just had enough of the other thread with everyone trying to outsmart everyone else - VERY annoying!!!

    Hope you get the answer that you're looking for - I'd hate for the stupidity of some to mean that genuine people don't get responded to.
     
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  15. Guys you are forgetting some very important things like:

    - Suspension - amount of travel dictates the type of positioning. The chook chaser is highly sprung and high of the road so just leaning does make a huge difference

    - Speed - The speed dictates the body position required for a corner. It is called circular and forward momentum.

    - Weight - Bike and rider

    - Tyre profile - Rounder tyres will pitch better than sharper....

    - Frame geometry - Honda GP straight and harder to steer so they lean. Yamaha is nervous at speed but much easier to turn

    There is about 10 things you need to worry about when cornering fast and that does not include the other 100 things you do to keep the corner smooth. Leaning off of the bike is not always requried and is not always the best approach.
     
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  17. Weighting the inside peg will give a quick tip in but will also force the weight to the rear tyre which increases chance of back end stepping out...... It pushes the bike "down" further.
     
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  18. :roll:
    (sigh) This is all so 'last week'
     
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  19. Well, colour me surprised...

    Of course. Not like we should try and fit it into some kind of predictive framework... that's for eggheads...
     
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  20. Was I involved in this convo last week????? Cant remember????

    I recall a post like this about a month ago and then the month before and then the month before and so on anhd so forth... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

    People, go and try all the variations. When you have tried all the variations, you will be about 10 years older and you will then be wise.

    Race Managers spend their entire lives working and setting up bikes for their racers.... You really think we are going to resolve this here. How many people here have competed at major events?????
     
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