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Reactions to crash scene

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Grendel, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. I came off my bike a few years back, not really a bad one in the scheme of things but it was more how other road users reacted that really changed me. No one stopped. in particular, the car that cause me to crash (i didn't hit anything, just locked my wheels and low sided).
    I've bottled it up inside except saying a few words about it to those who asked. I guess it's not just me, the same thing happened a lot more explicitly to another rider in this news article. I hope this post is in the right part of the forum.

    Man 'lost faith in humanity' as cars drive by injured motorbike rider

  2. I can't understand how this could happen, I was first at an bike accident scene a few months ago, and almost every single car and bike stopped or slowed and asked if help was required.

    Total opposite reaction to what you experienced, don't know if this reflects part of the world, type of road etc.

    Normally people will stop, so you must have been very unfortunate. Are you able to share more details of where it was? If it was on a motorway I can understand people not stopping, although you think some might, nay should, especially those that saw it occur.
  3. I'm disgusted by this but not shocked.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Not typical behavior on country roads, but I have seen it before being a CFA volunteer attending a few MVA's, I suppose that's the way the world is nowadays, I'm alright Jack, bugger you, sad as it may be people don't want to get involved, a first aid course should be part of license requirements
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Wong place wrong time. I point a big finger, & have been doing so for decades now to no avail, at the inferior driver/rider education systems we have here. Nobody gives a damn, I've a handful of dead mates to prove it & the mentality isn't getting better due to litigation precedents, corporate bottom lines & gov's who claim they don't have enough funds.
    It is illegal NOT to stop at a crash site if anyone can be bothered to update themselves on the road rules.
    Example A: Good mate was riding home from conducting an evening m/c learners course on the Central Coast. Four wheel drive on the wrong side of the road in a blind corner took him out. Driver didn't stop. Bled to an agonizing death, alone, on the side of the road. Eventually somebody stopped given there was bits of bike all over the road (evidence very unclear driver located, admitted he was drunk, but not prosecuted for some reason) Still get the heebies when I think about it. Family, including the 3 month old son, still shattered.
    Example B: Very old mate, who I encouraged to get onto a m/cycle 50 years ago, is 2 clicks from home, northern burbs, Sydney, heading into a round about with sun in his eyes. Gets a tradie ute up the backside, thrown for some meters, breaks neck. Instant death. According to a few pedestrian witnesses, not one vehicle stopped & the traffic continued to go around him/ them lying/ on the road.
    Example C: yours truly comes into a gradual uphill, off camber, blind corner at 100kph just out of Bentley, NSW. Visibility good but no signage anywhere. About 200 meters of gravel right there in your road space, nowhere to go so lay the bike down & utilize all learned survival techniques. Leathers & helmet did the job although a shoulder scar still visible from the barbed wire fence. Lucky I guess. Nobody on the road at the time but an alert cocky from a few hundred meters away on a nearby property saunters down to inspect the fall out. The comments were hilarious. Ended up staying the night, repairing the bike, the body & feasting on some decent country style tucker.
    Example D: Broken down (no body damage) on an autobahn just out of Berlin. Discovered an ADAC emergency yellow telephone box & yelled loudly (how they expect you to hear anything beggars belief) in my best Deutsch for help. Within 10 mins max there were three police cars, a m/cycle & a helicopter on hand not to mention a dozen cars had stopped to see if I was ok & to practice a little engleesh I assume. Bike had Canuck plates.
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  6. Sadly, our society has become very fearful of being held responsible. Stopping to help is really a no brainer, of course if emergency personal are already, on scene, then you stopping will not help so just continue on.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. In the current day climate of me me me now now now coupled with must answer text, Facebook, snapchat etc it doesn't surprise me.
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  8. It depends.

    On my 2 crashes (1 panic lowside) and one smidsy I've always had someone stop and bystanding pedestrians help right the bike back on its wheels.
    I've also been first on the scene before and pulled up to a few up in the Dandenongs where almost every rider pulled over creating a 100m long line of bikes!
    Another time in peak hour traffic I just stopped my bike in lane 1, hoped off, checked the rider, stood in the middle of the road to signal a couple of cars to pull over because it was to much to manage on my own.

    In a crash scene people are in shock and need instruction. Without someone telling them what to do they will stand their like zombies or start tweeting and taking selfies.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. I had an incident with a car on a pretty deserted country road not long ago who caused me to drop it. He wanted to stop and hit the brakes up the road, but because he was sort of half to blame, he decided to drive off. I was stunned and angry and really wondered what sort of person would do that. But help wasn't too far behind me, even though I had almost lifted it and it was nice to have someone just ask the question 'Are you ok?' Sometimes, that's all it takes to make it better.

    So GrendelGrendel , I'm asking you now, since no one asked you back then. Are you ok?
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Have to agree with you there!
  11. This is unusual. Youll usually get too many people and its embarrassing.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Although I agree this is disgusting behaviour, I am not at all surprised by it. It is the way society has become, everyone is self important and couldn't care less about anthers plight. Now this might be a generalisation in some part, but it extends to other driver behaviours too..

    This part of your opening post concerns me though -

    No one caused you to crash. By your own admission, you locked the brakes that caused the low side. Self assessment of your abilities and short comings are a large part of road craft and improving on them. Maybe you need to ask, why did I lock my brakes? Was I too close? Did I panic brake? What could I do next time to avoid an incident?

    I am not trying to be a prick, but, this is part of being responsible for your self on a bike. Just trying to get you to think further about it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. I've the unenviable fortune to have been in all three positions: as the patient, the first responder & have continued on. Obviously my skills are fairly unique (and applicable to this situation), so I actually have a few 'guidelines' I follow. Being the patient is self-explanatory -- avoid at all costs. ;)

    Firstly, the idea of not stopping to render what assistance you are able to is pretty abhorrent to me. If I see a bike on the side of the road, I'll always slow down & give a thumbs up to see if they need help, because I have been that man.

    From a legal point of view, my understanding is that anyone (not just a medical person) is protected by Good Samaritan legislation (in NSW) provided you make the attempt in good faith AND are not affected by alcohol or other drugs.

    I've been the first responder on a couple of occasions. The most serious was when an L-plater on a twitchy KTM dirt bike popped a wheelie, couldn't get the front down & hit a section of W-rail immediately above a cliff over the esplanade at one of the beaches here in Newcastle. I heard the engine rev, then a thump, and looked up to see this kid free fall 15m onto a road. Reached him in about 10-15 seconds thinking "not much to do here except keep the bits together for the coroner" but amazingly he only cracked a scapula. He was KO'd and then a bit combative when I got there though. Realistically, for me to actually use most of my specialist knowledge I need the support of a hospital, however in this setting there are a few of things I CAN do: ensure no-one attempts to move him or attempt to take the helmet off, immobilise his C-spine, try to keep him calm, and if he needs it, ensure he gets good basic life support. Probably the single most important thing is actually to be the "oasis of calm" at the head-end and properly take control of the situation. There's a great talk by the late Dr John Hinds where he specifically mentions the "concerned face" and how its important that its not any different to your normal face -- this really does have a calming effect on the bystanders. People will respond to clearly projected authority and generally do what you ask: stop traffic, find me a torch, locate his mates & so on. When the ambulance arrives 15 minutes later I can also do a few more advanced things like safely remove the helmet, log roll him onto the stretcher and put a big-ass needle in a vein. One thing to be aware of though is that the paramedics have FAR more experience at managing this stuff in the field than I do, they have their own protocols and so on, so its more appropriate for me to back them up rather than manage the situation as I would in an emergency department.

    I've driven by an accident on a few occasions as well, including on a Netrider ride! Each and every time, the ambulance was there and it was immediately apparent that they had the situation under control. I think in that setting any additional people is probably counter-productive, even if its well-intentioned. I would stop without hesitation if there weren't any trained responders, or if I could see there were problems and simply say that I was an anaesthetist and ask if they required any help.

    Sorry, this has been a bit of a longer-than-intended post, but its certainly an issue fairly close to my heart, more so in recent times.
    • Like Like x 14
    • Winner Winner x 2
  14. Great post Doc.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Quite a few years ago I was turning right across another road and there was oil on the road surface so I came off. One lady stopped to see if I was ok but about 5 or 6 other cars just honked their horns and abused me while I was trying to pick up my bike.
  16. when i was a learner, i slid on wet tram tracks and went down on a busy Toorak Rd. Everyone stopped because I was in there way, but no one got out to help me.
  17. Firstly I'm sorry this has happened,

    but having been with people who have gone down, I have only seen the good side. people stopping or slowing down to check.

    Personally, I have ridden or driven past an accident, as there were several people/vehicles already there, we don't need to have a heap of parked vehicles
    creating more of a hazard. Could this have been what happened in some of these cases ?

    If people have seen other vehicles, they could have assumed that the person was being tended to already, and made the decision not to be a bystander
    getting in the way. Just another view point . . . .
  18. Turn your bike off and leave it on the road. Just go sit down out of the way.

    There is no point damaging yourself trying to pick it up when you are already injured. You dont feel your injuries when you first crash because of shock.

    Someone else will pick up the bike for you.

    Whatever made you crash might make others crash. People shouldnt be passing the scene until it is looked at carefully and a bike stilll on the way will mean that is done.
  19. I was on a country road, Nerriga Road. The normal single lane each way and the light traffic. when I did come off, there were four cars ahead of me. I couldn't get a mobile signal and eventually got someone to stop.
  20. Thanks. I'm ok now, but I didn't get back on the bike for a year. Physical injuries healed in 8 weeks, but I wasn't ready for a long time.