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RBT scam by Police

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Removed_User6, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. lTHE police union has openly encouraged its members to keep faking random breath tests to meet "impossible" targets.

    At the same time efforts to track down police faking the tests have been scrapped because the police service does not have the resources despite an official investigation into the practice.

    The Courier-Mail last year revealed officers had been manipulating RBT machines to generate fake tests as they struggled with impossibly high targets.

    Our say: No tolerance on RBT deceit

    The practice has probably skewed drink-driving statistics for years, hiding the size of the problem, and led police and the Crime and Misconduct Commission to set up an investigation.

    However, after uncovering "deficiencies" in police records and questioning some data, the investigation was wrapped up due to lack of resources even as some regions upped their targets.

    Writing in the March Police Union Journal, northern region representative Mick Barnes suggested increases of up to "tens of thousands" of tests would further strain operational police, possibly leading to more "rubbery" figures.



    "Ask a traffic officer that's (sic) been around for a while and you'll find the best way to reduce the likelihood of drink-driving in our community is to sit off the pubs again," he wrote.

    "This was the tried and tested method when operational police had the time to proactively police instead of running between jobs. In the meantime keep exercising those thumbs," he said, referring to the method of placing a thumb over the machine's air intake to generate a false reading.

    http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23494051-3102,00.html
     
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  2. But hang on. Police don't have financial targets! :roll:
     
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  3. read the whole article
    theres even more :evil:
     
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  4. This is in Queensland isn't it?
     
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  5. So this applies to the hand-held screening devices they use?
    I always thought they had to follow that up with a more accurate breath or blood test anyway. :?
     
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  6. +1 to that, if not thats a bit scary :shock:
     
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  7. Yep, and reason to start watching where the cop has their thumb next time I go through a RBT.
     
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  8. Hang on, so what:

    - the police are saying they're doing more RBT's than they are actually doing?

    OR

    - they are doing fake tests on people they pull over [ie. not testing them properly] because they don't have time to actually charge people for drink driving, if they're to meet their total quota?

    OR

    - they are getting the machines to return positive readings falsely to boost the number of people actually caught drink driving?
     
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  9. that how i took it :?
     
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  10. No it wouldn't be this. I'd say they are just filling in Log sheets with fake regos or similar to fake how many they are pulling over.

    In NSW they just pull a whole heap over in the morning. That way they don't have to charge anyone (which is very time consuming) and they usually have cops to spare at that time of day.
     
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  11. So why the bit about covering the air intake on the meter with their thumb to fake a result. :?
     
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  12. After re-reading the article, I think it's the

    "- the police are saying they're doing more RBT's than they are actually doing?"

    The RBT machines must log how many tests they have been used for that day, and the thumb-thing just makes the machine think it's done a test.

    Be nice to stand-up at a press conference when the roads minister or the police commisioner are telling us how great they are at catching drink drivers, and ask a nice, big, fat WTF?
     
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  13. Holding the thumb over the device gives a NEGATIVE reading. It would only happen where the police member wants to 'look like' he is testing a person but wants a negative reading (you can speculate as to reasons) or to make it look like they had done more tests than they actually did (to increase the figures) so JD and Ktulu have hit it on the head! In any case this is a 'screening' device and even if a positive reading was ever obtained then they would still have to use a prescribed machine to do the actual test.

    This has gone on in most states for many years. The Vic boys got smacked for the same thing a very long time ago when the number of 'tests' far (by a HUGE amount!) exceeded the number of plastic 'straws' used (have to use a new one for each test!) and a big please explain went out! It is nothing more than police trying to keep the pollies happy by doing the tests they want! It would seem that the pollies and Police hierachy want more tests than actual results so the police are just doing what they want! (in a shifty kind of way!) As someone said if they really wanted to catch more they would sit off pubs, parties etc. and NOT random sites. They would get way more drink drivers but way less tests but this is not what it is about! Some of you people really are very paranoid!
     
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  14. Probably. I'm already wondering why if police wanted a negative result they couldn't just blow into the machine themselves..........
     
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  15. The cops are increasing the number of tests so it appears that the % of drink drvers is falling.

    The bit that worries me is that they have decided to stop pursuing the offenders [cops who are cheating or the bosses asking them to do it] because it will use resources,

    Anyway a good outcome, if the % of drink drivers is hogher than recorded it would justify more police resources, hmmm I wonder why the union got involved??? :roll:
     
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  16. yes they are fudging the books.
    yes they aqre fixing tests.
    and other things as well .

    now this raises even larger points.
    Accuracy of stats : they bodgy these stats , then they maybe bodgying others as well . ( crime reduction) , Road tolls, handheld radars etc
    Integrity: how is the public suppose to have confidence with coppers if they do this ?
    how are you suppose to belive when they tell you you are speeding ?
    How are you supposed to bring up your children telling them that they should trust policeman with there lives.
    ( these arent crooked coppers doing this , this is even the good ones).
    fraud : why hasnt the union been charged with knowingly commiting an offense or fraud ?
    when they are telling there members to do such acts ?
     
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  17. Much easier to hold your thumb over it, does exactly the same thing as blowing through he straw without the effort!

    I don't believe that is the case at all, it is more about them actually wanting to be out catching the 'real' offenders rather than wasting their shifts testing thousands of everyday mums and dads in 'high profile' or 'high visibility' locations where only the really stupid drink drivers go and all they are doing is gathering 'feel good' stats for the government! The problem is the government wants all these tests to show how well they are working, they don't really want to catch them!

    And to answer GRoberts03 stats have been bodged by nearly every government department (including police) for years to satisfy the point they are trying to make at the time! Front number plates are a perfect bloody example! Stats are whatever the government wants them to be!!!! I don't believe it is a matter of 'lack of integrity' (probably quite opposite) or even fraud. I think you need to be realistic and look at this for what it is. This is just a bunch of blokes (oh and girls) satisfying stupid demands of their out of touch bosses, nothing more, nothing less. It is not right, but there are much bigger issues to worry about!
     
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  18. Dave I am the last person the bash the police, some of my best mates are cops.

    The issue of fudging stats to pander to government is crap, if the cops can't attain the number of tests required then they are morally and I would suspect legally required to tell the government of their concerns! The police need to stand up and say that this is bullshit and do something about it, for them to turn around and say oh the guvment will get cranky is as I said before is bullshit.

    Are there bigger issues to worry about with regards to the general police force sorry service in Australia? Yep, but this is a concern because it shows that the police are being diverted from real police work.
     
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  19. I cant swallow that Dave .
    If it was a politician, bean counter or whatever but there are some jobs that you cant bodge figures.
    Coppers, Nurses , doctors etc.
    Bodging figures doesnt achieve anything , it doesnt get increased manning etc .
    But it does show one thing .................Productivity.
    Remember the last police pay rise?
    They had to show a 10% increase in productivity to keep the rise.
    Thats fraud......................nothing more.

    dont get me wrong, I think its crap that they need to resort to these kinds of things.
    I also understand they are spread thin across the board , but bodging figures doesnt help there cause , just makes it worse.
     
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  20. I think it's more of a case that the cops see it for what it really is and that is a fairly uncommon offence and not that dangerous in the low range (0.05-0.08).

    So yes, they see it as a waste of resources, at least at the levels the politician want.
     
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