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Raise drinking age & price, solve drinking related crimes

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by jirf88, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. Read the rest here


    Support Y/N? Reasons?

    Personally, I have mixed feelings. There are a whole lot of people my age who get incredibly magotted on a regular basis, and the last violent bashing that I can remember was carried out by someone in the sub 21 category. On the other hand, I am sure this particular behaviour is not restricted to people under 21... So while I can see this perhaps acting as a remedy for one part of the problem, is it a solution? I don't think so.

    The cost part does certainly sound like dollars falling into the gov't coffers though...

  2. Alcohol related violence is predominately seen in night clubs/bars/pubs etc etc. Raising the legal drinking age is stupid.
    What needs to happen is enforcement of the current laws that are more than adequate. As one who has worked in security for many many years, the venue staff will always serve people till they are falling over and only stop when the said person staggers enough that they are thrown out.
    RSA is obviously just a 1 day course and means nothing as almost no one practices it.
  3. I think it's a bad idea.

    Kids start drinking well before they're legal. Most kids I went to school with started drinking at parties by the time they were 15 or 16. Making it illegal for another 3-4 years won't stop them from drinking, it'll just shift them from pubs into back yards and back streets where they'll drive to some remote area to get drunk.

    Regularly, some academic will come out with some bold proclamation that doing X will fix Y. The problem is that these academics don't live in the real world and never have, and so they don't realise that there is no easy fix, no silver bullet.
  4. Having a drinking age of 21 is ridiculous, people are considered adults at 18 and can vote but can't drink?

    Total rubbish.
  5. nope. just take some responsibility for your own actions and have some bloody respect for others. Don't come all innocent and use 'but I was drunk' as the excuse for your own antisocial activities. string 'em up by the goolies I say
  6. I agree it's not just the young ones causing the trouble. Many cases seem to include aggressors in their late 20's and early 30's. Denied alcohol, the under 21s will turn to illegal drugs instead.

    Being old enough to remember much earlier closing times, I have to say that I think it is part of the solution. I know it will be unpopular, but I think it works to a degree.

    Maybe it's a compromise that we need. I understand that some people want (even need) some late night venues. On the other hand, ever-longer drinking sessions might seem like fun but it's also undeniably harmful.

    So, cheaper drinks at early closing venues, much more expensive drinks at fewer late closing venues (via tax), with a genuine attempt to deny entry to drunk patrons at the late ones. What do you reckon?

    Unlimited hours for those that choose to stop selling alcohol by a certain time but continue with entertainment? Or would that encourage alternative substance use?

    Expert on the radio yesterday noted that the frequency of violence is no worse than it ever was, but the injuries are much worse. Men have always fought, but it used to be until there was a winner. Now it seems that they use weapons, and it's to the death.
  7. pfft want solve anything.
  8. "I was drunk" is not a legal defence. I agree with simon - just castrate the idiots who punch on, calm them the hell down! :D
  9. Deal with the parents who introduce children to alcohol in the first place; most drunks get their first taste of alcohol from 'responsible' hands at home.
  10. Yet if it's "the great forbidden", they're just going to want to find out why it's so "bad"...
  11. Getting a taste of alcohol isn't the problem. It's how you are educated in its use.

    The bulk of the problems stem from late night clubs. The bar staff and management are to blame each and every time. It's hard to "cut someone off" drinking in a club.
    When someone finally decides to stop serving drunks, then and only then will the clubs/pubs/bars be safe. But they need to be serious about making a difference. Not just for the sake of "trying to look like" they are doing something.

    Private parties, well, they are another issue all together.
  12. Links...

    Just because you say it doesn't make it true... Countries with liberal alcohol laws seem to have the least problems, from what I can see...
  13. err...

    I would say close to 100% of people get there first taste of alcohol at home. It follows that most drunks would also get their first taste at home. reminds me of a quote from usual suspects "We can place you in queens on the night of the high-jacking" "Really? I live in Queens. You put that together yourself Einstein?"

  14. I think we've dealt with the whole 'alcohol at home' issue in a fair bit of detail before. The evidence seems to suggest that it's *what kind* of drinking is modelled at home that's important, rather than whether it happens at all... Although of course complete prohibition is the simplest solution, like most over-simple solutions, it's wrong (if the criterion of rightness is effectiveness).

    Who would you prefer your kids learn about alcohol from - assuming, realistically, that they're not going to be teetotal for life - their parents showing them responsible patterns of alcohol use, or their mates binge drinking? *Of course* it's a problem if the parents are binge drinking, but on average...

    Anyway, that's kind of a side issue. Most of the US has a 21 drinking age, and I don't see dramatically better outcomes there that are worth emulating.

    The original response (if indeed it's as reported) is another over-simple 'solution' that's wrong.

    What's actually going to be effective is doing the hard yards of real social change. It actually works, on littering, sun safeness, smoking and a variety of other issues. It just needs the political will to get serious, rather than to go for bandaid (and tax-lucrative) solutions.
  15. about the education thing, not sure it would make much of a difference. The binge drinking message has been around for a while with bugger all response.
    But 100% agree about the club/bar thing. If they keep serving drunks, drunks are going to keep buying and drinking. You can see why management gives responsible drinking no more than lip service as alcohol is where they make most of their money from. They dont want to drive away their profit source.
  16. Let me think. If i was a heavy drinker of sorts , what piece legislation would make me curb my alcohol intake... hmmm....yep, pretty much nothing.
    As someone has already pointed out. I too believe it requires a concentrated mass of social initiative to push for a mind global change in our attitudes to alcohol.
    I'm thinking big here people: celebrities, former astronauts, has been idol singers, cute dogs with only 3 limbs etc etc.
  17. BTW I love the context sensitive advertising on these pages, they crack me up sometimes.
    ooooo an iPhone iDrink-too-much app...
  18. Ban teenagers, alcohol, and nightclubs. Raise the price of everything and give everyone free $900 couches to sit on at home.

    Problem solved.

  19. Yeah well, next thing you know they'll be addicted to couch fillings.
  20. The US is a great model. Everyone gets stoned instead.