Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC Radar Gun Accuracy

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Cambo, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. #1 Cambo, Sep 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2014
    I'm trying to establish whether it is possible for a radar gun to be able to pick up a motorbike whilst it is travelling next to or overtaking a car??


    I wait at a side road (lets call it emery court) as a car goes past on Centre Danadenong road (in Dingley). I then pull out onto centre Dandenong Road and head east. I accelerate to the point where I pass this car and it happens within 100-150 metres. Whilst I am passing this car, a police car sitting in the car park of the local mini golf centre (approx. 289.5 meters away) puts the radar gun on me and clocks me doing 80, then 78. At that stage I had to have been beside the car. There was no way I was in front of the car at that stage.

    How certain can we be that he could positively identify tht it was my speed he recorded?

    Just doing a goolge search and found that it is a LASER not radar that he used.
  2. Laser is more accurate than the old radar. It can "supposedly" pick you up more than a km away.
  3. The manuals on all these 'speed detection devices' say all sorts of nearby things can throw readings off, cars, buses, rocks, armco...

    Find out the brand and model of laser gun it is, and check the manual.

    If you have the means to fight the case, cool - you'll probably just get railroaded by the moneyjustice machine, though.
  4. Not correct.
    You will lose because a laser is accepted as being 100% correct by the courts.
    The laser beam is only a couple of cm wide at point of impact. It is therefore very easy to use and aim accurately, unlike radar which "can" be affected (in theory) by outside influences.
  5. You trying to steal my job??? :p

    Spot on. I was about to type the same. Laser = very narrow beam.
  6. Sorry Vic, next ones yours ok? :p
  7. Last time I tried to obtain the Gatso Radar Manual that the cops have I was told it wasn't accessible by the general public or something... needed a print license or some shit.
  8. Actually the laser beam diverges as it travels, its not focused in a solid dot. Depending on the distance, it can quite happily be contested.
  9. Can they not be subpoened during a court case, though?

    Tramp, I know the laser is accepted is infallible. Same as radar, and same as the 'estimate' of a highway patrol officer, depending on how nicely you dress and how sorry you look in front of a judge.

    But in traditional 'cover our arse' policy, I'll bet the instructions for the thing say to use it on a single object, alone, and x number of metres from any other object that could interfere with readings.

    Of course I could be wrong, the instructions might say "Use it on whatever you want in a crowded traffic scenario! No worries!"
    In which case I'm sure the laser is accurate, but how do you know the cop has it pointed at the correct vehicle?
    Just his word...
  10. EXACTLY!!!
    fukn bullshit cops can just show you a number on a screen. I want to see a running video of it targeting my car or bike.
  11. I got done doing a dumb speed on a straight, deserted and dry piece of freeway at 2.30am on a weekday morning a few years ago. Anyway, the superheros chased me and (about 3kms down the road) pulled me over (they were stationary and I was shakin' a leg).

    Anyway, while the fat angry one was writing my ticket (and saving my life, thank you Mr Policeman for saving my life I owe my existence to you), the nice one came over and we started chatting. He acknowledged that what I was doing wasn't dangerous because of the empty and dead straight, flat high quality road and clear dry conditions etc and anyway he showed me the laser and how it worked and actually let me use it. And through the scope, you can get the beam onto just about anything! For example, you could easily target something as small as a car rear vision mirror its that accurate.

    So in short, yes I think they could tell it was you.
  12. Like Luckyluke I've had the opportunity to play with a laser. The nice policeman even booked a couple of cars that I indicated were doing X speed over the limit. If only they'd known.

    Very easy to target a bike. Where we were standing was about 400m to the corner where the vehicles could first be seen, and within seconds of a bike appearing I was able to get a speed reading for it.
  13. RADAR returns the largest signal, usually the largest object. LIDAR is targetted.

    The detection device will be on the ticket.
  14. Who would want to drive in any other state than Victoria............ such enjoyable roads to be on :roll:
  15. Of course, this is a hypothetical....what were you doing? Because, hypothetically, if you really were doing 20kmh over the limit, doesn't that make you tantamount to a child killing zombie warrior? In which case, you probably deserve the entire library that the beak will send your way....hypothetically speaking of course :)
  16. If I had hypothetically been speeding then I may have been going 80 first recording then 78 last recording. This gets reduced down to 76 due to tolerences. It wasn't like I took off fast though and only did those speeds to get in front of the cars that could put my life in potential danger. :)

    I really am lucky though to have survived because as we all know speed kills.

    The popo man was using a laser, so I guess hypothetically there isn't a great deal i can do. :(
  17. I am really glad this is all hypothetical.
  18. This is true, depending upon what device Vic Pol use, but all LIDAR is targeted, and can be aimed as such with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

    If it was 200m from the Lidar to the target and hand held, police could detect you alone accurately enough to satisfy a court that the Lidar said you were doing the alleged speed. If it was a detection of say 350m+ and hand held it starts to get pretty shaky, and the Police would begin to see some difficulty in proving the offence if you make them. Even tripod mounted, above 350m it starts to raise sufficient doubt, and if you run it well, you may get off.

    The Police have to be a trained and certified radar/Lidar operator to use the device for speed detection, and the device must be certified annually to the Aust Standard and a certificate to that effect issued following testing.

    If the operator was not correctly certified, or certification for the operator or device was not current it is an instant get out of jail free card, and once pointed out to the Police, they would withdraw the TIN, as they know going to court would result in dismissing of the charge and in all likelihood a costs order against them for bringing it on when they shouldn't have.

    The operating manual can be procured under FOI, or sometimes from the manufacturer, you can also get a copy of the Police guidelines for the operation of Radar/Lidar under FOI if you are persistent.
  19. I can't remember the actual figures, but at a range you can see a vehicle in the "sights" of the device, the beam has spread no more than a cm or so at most.
    At "usable ranges" its a non issue.

    Most (not all) of these cases are won on procedural issues, not evidence.

    There is a hell of a lot of info here on these:
  20. if you get booked, also ask to see the reading and possibly from an engineering point of view you can ask when the device was last calibrated.