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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by malenko, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. I have had my own personal views and complaints about this topic for long time now but this thread https://netrider.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=54405 has made me start thinking about this prominant social issue.

    Basically I would like to know everyones views on this topic.

    I realise this is treading an extremely thin line but it could also turn into an interesting, insightful and intelligent conversation thread.

    Basically what I want to know is why is it that only white people are labeled as racist while people of other heritages can get away with it?

    I know any individual can be racist but I am more talking about the labeling, like what happened to Pauline Hanson when she was saying if you come to Australia you have to accept an Australian way of life or go home. Now she was labeled a racist but if you read what I said again it really isn't.

    But why is it that other cultures seem to be immune from the racist brand that is handed out like candy for white people?

    Another example can be found right here in your nearest town or city. If an aboriginal starts abusing us just because we are white, then why is it that they don't get labeled racist?

    Why is it that if black people decided to have a march through the city proclaiming the love of their heritage with the terms "Black Power", or "Black pride" on banners no one would give it a thought, but a group of white people carrying banners saying "White Pride" or "White Power" would instantly be accused of being racists?

    I hope people understand what I am trying to get off my chest here. Like I said in the other thread I judge people on their attitudes and the impression I they give me when I first meet them, not on skin color.... But this is what annoys me is that I have to explain it like this for fear of some one calling me a racist and that name sticking to me :(

    I know we don't have people trolling this forum just dieing to give people hard times and I really do want this to be an intelligent and respectful thread, so your thoughts and opinions??

    ps it took me FOREVER to work up the courage to post this potential disaster of a thread.
  2. Racism gets branded on people when the victim is the minority. Its not suppose to be like that, but that seems to be how it works.

    Go find some social/ethical forum for this stuff. Its probably a bit too far off topic for here.
  3. I hate to get involved in this discussion but i can't help myself.

    I agree with your observation, however there may be more to this.
  4. People may not agree with this but everyone is racist to a degree (keyword) and some show it and some don't.

    End discussion.
  5. I'm not sure your premise is correct, at least not internationally. I think a lot of people recognise that there is very strong racism between different Asian groups (which, ironically, most white Australians can't tell apart), and that gets called by its right name.

    But yeah, within Australia it's much easier to get labelled a racist if you're part of the Anglo majority. But that doesn't make anyone else's racism be not racism... the label is not the thing.

    But the main reason that your example of a black pride versus white pride march isn't a parallel case is the issue of who has the money, privilege and power. Since in Australia that's the white majority (though that's increasingly changing), a 'white power' movement has real power to do real damage to people. Aboriginal people, on the other hand, typically do not have that kind of institutionalised privilege and power, and an assertion of pride is something that can help them take pride in their heritage and work to better conditions for their people.

    I firmly believe that in the future this issue will melt away, as more and more mixing occurs and people come to live alongside people of other races and realise they are just people. Of course, humans being humans, some of us will find other grounds to discriminate on - religion, sexuality or even hair colour.

    If it's really true that you judge each person on their own merits, as you say, then you're not acting in a racist way. It is, after all, racist to pretend that all members of minorities are good people, just because they're minorities. People are people, and all groups have their ratbags.

    But saying 'everyone is the same and should therefore be treated the same' ignores the idea of giving a helping hand up to those who need it. Sure, those kinds of efforts and programs should be based on need rather than race, and I hope we'll move in that direction. But it's new immigrants who need English lessons, not those who have spoken English all their lives, so it's not discriminatory to direct those services where they're needed. If Aboriginal people have a life expectancy 20 years less than other Australians, it's not discriminatory to offer extra help and support to try to improve that. That's where Pauline Hanson was wrong.
  6. What it comes down to is history and minorities.
    The history of the past 200 years is of white people dominating other races during the colonial era.
    In Western societies white people also make up the majority and are seen as being in an advantageous position compared to other races in those societies.
    However, you are quite right that anyone abusing other races is being racist and perhaps this is being recognised when today we condemn Robert Mugabe for his treatment of the white minority (and black tribal minorities).
    Tricky topic to discuss :roll:
  7. i refuse to answer your question until you remove the american spelling from your post.
  8. The other point (much shorter, I promise) is why mention race at all most of the time? Why do we need to know that a particular bad driver is Indian? How is that relevant? And if it is, why *don't* we need to know when a bad driver is white? It should just not come up at all.
  9. Its about the precedent thats been set - when a group of people have been known to have opressed another people - especially if the opressed is a minority group, there forms an inferiority crisis and a defence mechanism. They need to go out and 'prove' that they are also equal because of how the predominent society has shaped impressions over the years.

    One would have to be blind to deny that fact that 'black' people have had a lesser position in our society and history whereas whites have never had to face such a life-effecting situation. As i heard in a movie once "Do you have any idea what it would be like to grow up as a black man in this society?". Just imagine it.

    If you scream 'white power' you're merely reinstating an accepted norm in an ill society, whereas if you scream 'black (equal) power' you could be changing the ills of society and restoring balance.
    You needn't be a black person to scream 'black power'.

    [PS: There are racist black groups that believe that the whites are inferior to them, they are just as bad as white supremacists. Its about EQUALITY for all.]
  10. Because us whites make up the majority, so we always gonna have to
    to cop the racist tag? [​IMG]

    I couldnt care less.

    White pride lives on [​IMG]

    As they say, talk about race, religion & politics, & you almost guaranteed
    to have a bumfight


    It'll all be YOUR fault boy [​IMG]
  11. Nah MG, it's not being in the majority that cops the racist tag, it's being in the majority and saying something derogatory about the minority *as a group*. So by all means say 'that bloke is a prick', but why say 'that Tongan bloke is a prick'? Adding the race classifier tends to lead people to assume you might also mean 'all Tongans are pricks', which is bullshit. Keep it individual.
  12. Whew, I just let out a HUGE sigh of relief that thread didn't backfire.

    You have all raised brilliant thought provoking points. But the Robert Mugabe thing only sort of comes across as him being a racist. What I mean by that is you have to read between the lines and make the decision yourself that yes he is indeed racist to the white minority of his community. BUT if that were reversed and he was white and was doing those terrible things on black people you wouldn't have to. It would be on the headlines in italics and underlined.

    I just don't see why people hate other people for being a different color than them, I really don't understand it. Like I said previously it is much better to judge people on their own individual merits and attitudes, and I lead a much more fulfilling life because of it. But the thing is I don't just say this, I actually DO IT.
  13. [​IMG]

    But seriously. The Japanese are one of the most racist nations on earth. Their cultural upbringing (mostly) instills that they are superior to all other races. To them we are the round eyed barbarians or 'Gaijin'.

    Indians (the cricket type :grin: ) are also exceptionally racist, as are Germans, Russians, South Africans, Greeks, blah blah blah.

    Essentially, we're all racist as various cultures because we're scared of somebody that looks or acts different to us because it makes us question ourselves and who we are. As people we don't like to look inside because we might not like what we find there, therefore we ridicule or look down upon people that look different to us.

    That's what I think anyway. I'm normally wrong

  14. I suspect that a lot of what is branded racism, really isn't. Complaining about women driving round Chatswood in BMWs might be couched in terms of their race, but it's really just about envy.....
  15. :LOL: :LOL: @Joel

    This could be a very interesting and informative discussion, as long as we all keep calm. I agree that being in the majority, any critisicism of a minority is looked upon as racisim...and yes it is not right.
    Re: Paul Hanson, we are proud of our country, our acheivements, our way of life. It's what makes us unique. The different cultures ( mainly european ) have also helped to shape Australia into what it is today.
    It's also normal to feel threatened when others come here and refuse to integrate. ( Not gonna label any religious or ethnic group, but I think you know what I mean ).
    I am not racist. However, I LOVE my Country. My Parents migrated here from Malta when they were in their teens ( Malta was under British Rule back then so yeah British Passports). They will never forget their Birth Land, but home for them is HERE.
    I feel that anyone who considers becoming a resident here, should integrate .. conform ( to put it harsher ) or fcuk OFF.
    It's seems when a particular race seems reluctant to embrace our way of life .. we get our back up, and yep.. racism raises it's ugly head. As much as I disagree with racism, I can understand why some of us can feel this way.

    ... my 2 cents worth
  16. chillax, *****z
  17. [​IMG]

    Heaps of East Africans have moved into my town [​IMG]

    Am I a racist if I cant stand the sight/outward appearance of these people?
    Am I a racist if I cant stand the accents of curry muchers?
    Am I a racist if I'm white proud?

    Hey Dougz, shoosh you! [​IMG]

    I don't either, but thats me, & I've long given up trying to understand
    why. I wasnt brought up like that so its not like it was bred into me.

    You think I should maybe turn to the Lord Jesus Christ? [​IMG]

    Oh well. You can't win em all.

    Where you going? The threads only just started [​IMG]
  18. well......... :)
  19. What does integrate/conform mean anyway? Lose our personal identities and beliefs?

    Sorry, I'm a Muslim Australian, and i just dont see myself conforming with the religious identity of the majority of Aussies (be it athiesm or Christianity). I'll have you know i love a good barbie every couple of weekends but i dont drink beer/alcohol due to my religious beliefs.

    Does that mean i'm not integrating?
    Again, what in the world does 'integrate' and 'conform' mean?

    As long as an Australian from a different background is following the laws, they're good. If they're not following the law, they're only as bad as any other Aussie who isn't following the law.
  20. Don't you think 'our way of life' is already incredibly diverse, though? My way of life is completely different from that of most of my white Anglo neighbours, and suburb by suburb, state by state, by religion and in a heap of other ways.

    Here's a short list of a few of my personal differences:

    1. I have a PhD, which puts me in a 1% bracket or so in the population
    2. I don't own and never watch a TV
    3. I ride a motorcycle ;)
    4. I'm into extreme metal - Opeth, Strapping Young Lad, Black Rain, Absu, Cthonic, Daath and a heap more bands most of you have probably never heard of

    And so on...

    Australians were very diverse even in the early 1900s when they were mostly Anglo (and Aboriginal people weren't counted). So just what does it mean to adopt 'our way of life'? Is it the chardonay-sipping, the VB-swilling or the teetotal life? Is it the vegan or the carnivorous, the profane or the ecclesiastical?

    My point is that there's probably more differences within the white community than there are between some whites and some from other cultures. So the demand that others 'embrace our culture' usually boils down to 'everyone should be like me'. For myself, heaven forbid - I don't want to live in an Australia filled with replicas of me.