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R1 starting issues

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by hackavatar, May 17, 2012.

  1. Hey guys,

    My 2010 R1 has had some issues starting lately. I got it's 10,000km service done the other day, and since then it's been really difficult to start the bike.



    Cranking it alone turns the engine over, but it fails to start. I need to give it ~25% throttle to make it start, and even then that's after a good six or seven turns of the engine, which isn't a good sign. When it's started though, it seems to idle normally.

    My housemate did drop it (gently, in the garage) before the service, so I took it in right after that - it's only at 8,800km's atm. I mentioned this to Team Moto, and asked for them to check it out just in case - nothing abnormal was reported back to me (and yes, I did ask).

    It's not the battery, I checked it with my multimeter and it's sitting at a good 12.8V with nothing powered.

    Just looking for some suggestions of things to check before I take it back to TeamMoto and ask what's going on. Every other oil change I've done and professional service I've had has never caused any issue like this, doubt it'd be any different for a litre bike.

    Cheers!
     
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  2. 2010 so it's EFI obviously - you shouldn't need to apply throttle to an EFI bike to get it to start, the computer does it for you...

    Since you've just had it serviced, return to the shop immediately!!! Might be something they forgot to hook back up...
     
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  3. j-rad has it in one.
     
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  4. That's what I thought. If I don't though, it'll run the battery out, it just won't start.

    Rang the dealership this morning, they said since it was a minor service all they really did was change the oil and check everything was right, tight and operational. I asked if they put any fuel in it (thinking they might have topped it up with 91 or something) but they said no.

    Taking it back Monday morning. Am I right in assuming that it should be free, given the problem seems to have been caused by their maintenance?
     
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  5. Forgot to mention, they also said that I shouldn't be using 98, I should be running 95. I've always put 98 in it, and it's run perfectly. Pretty sure that's what the manual recommends. The mechanic said don't run 98 because it fouls the spark plugs. I put a tank of 95 in not too long after I got it, and it ran terribly, so I never used it again.
     
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  6. I run 98 on my 2010 - seemingly without any problems.

    If mine has sat for a while without being started - it takes a few 3-5 second blasts of the start button to get it started.
     
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  7. If it was just a minor service, then it won't be automatically free. Depends what they find and they are unlikely to admit error unless it is an easy fix or it is obvious.
     
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  8. I'm supposed to run 95 in the 14. Sometimes I do, but when I have a choice it's usually shell Ultra 98. That's only because there's a shell about 100m from my house.

    It should start without throttle. If it doesn't, something isn't right. Get it looked at. If it was fine before the service and has exhibited this problem ever since, that isn't proof the shop screwed up, but it's pretty telling evidence.

    It sounds to me like a wire has been knocked off, perhaps a temp sensor or an auto-throttle / fast idle control, or ... something.
     
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  9. Hey, my 2010 GSXR 1000 instruction manual tells me I should be using 1/8 throttle when starting from cold.
    Also when I picked the bike up, the dealer told me to stay away from Shell petrol, something about the additives in the fuel can cause gremlins somewhere in the fuel system.
    Another customer had this issue and Shell reimbursed to the tune of $800 for repairs, so they are aware of the issue.
    Dont know if this helps at all.
     
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  10. Wow there you go hey....always thought EFI did that for you........I mean how the hell is your average joe going to measure 1/8th throttle LOL....

    +1 on the Shell fuel...Optimax or whatever it has been replaced with. Dunno if it's just a myth tho....

    Doesn't help when fuel stations get low in the tanks, dodgy operators are known for pumping some water into their tanks so the fuel sits on top to get the last drop out of them...

    Depending on the issue I guess will depend whether it's covered under 'a workshop warranty' on labour, also depends if they admit to it too lol

    Just play it cool and see what the outcome is...sorry not to have the silver bullet for ya but sounds like we've all learnt a thing or two here....I must read manuals more often hahaha
     
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  11. Thanks for the input guys. I guess over the weekend I can drain the fuel out of the tank and pour what I know to be BP 98 into it (usually go for BP) just to be sure, but I'm also of the opinion I don't want to muck around with it too much until they've looked at it - otherwise I could be blamed for said faults.

    Usually I never need to apply any throttle to start it, and it used to consistently start every third or fourth turn of the engine, even when cold.
     
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  12. I'm with you. Don't mess with it - take it back. Soonest!
     
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  13. My 09 takes a few cranks to kick over, I assumed it was something to do with the uneven firing order.

    I found every bike I've ever owned ran better or as well on 95 but this R1 felt unhealthy. Didn't know about Shell, I'll try to avoid it.

    Team Moto blacktown?
     
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  14. Marty, every time your bike sees you it doesn't want to start, it knows it has to put up with your smelly curry arse :)
     
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    • Like Like x 1
  15. Nah, Yamaha Enoggera. They're moving just up the road this weekend too, which doesn't make things any easier.

    When an engine cranks I mentally count the turns it's doing before it starts. It goes beyond the "okay, it should definately have started by now, I'm going to stop cranking it and try again in a second" mental thought.

    Back in non-crazy land, it's probably 5 seconds of cranking each attempt. Even cold it almost always starts within 2 seconds. At the stage where you know if you keep it going any longer, the battery is going to go on you, and push starting an R1 can not be a whole load of fun :p
     
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  16. R1's dont start

    They "AWAKEN"
     
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    • Like Like x 1
  17. Took it back today. Attempting to start it flattened the battery - it seems to be getting more and more difficult to start. I've been keeping an eye on the battery voltage and it's always been around 12.8v (in the diagnostics, so add a bit to balance for load of lights + ECU), and I've always ridden it for at least 45 minutes before stopping. It seems that's been enough to keep the battery topped up. So, I don't think it's the alternator, but I still ended up having to run it from a car battery to get it eventually started.

    The dealership is charging the battery tonight and will try and start it cold in the morning, and let me know what the go is. Hopefully it's nothing major.

    The mechanic kept insisting that I run 95. Anyone else have experience with 95 in an R1? My googling only seems to find results about running R1's on different octane levels overseas, which don't match our fuels here.
     
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  18. 12.8v is low suggesting the battery is not holding charge.
     
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  19. Got called by the dealership today, they told me that while the battery appeared fine (ie - it recharged overnight properly, was holding expected voltage etc) under load it conked out. They said it seems like one of the battery's inner cells had shat itself and it just couldn't sustain the heavy load of cranking a cold engine, despite appearing to be perfectly normal under diagnostics/multimeter. Swapping it for a charged, brand new battery had it starting just fine this morning.

    They reckon it'll cost me $120 for a new battery.
     
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  20. Okay, have the bike back (hooray) with new battery.

    It still takes longer than it has ever before needed to start, although it is now starting consistently on the second attempt, it doesn't like starting on the first push of the button. Weird. Need to test more on "first press attempt", but want to buy a battery charger first.

    Now the dealership blames it on the pipes, they say I need a powercommander to improve the cold starts. While I understand that it will improve it, it sounds to me like a load of dealership horseshit because I didn't need one before.

    The only thing that comes to mind is the oil change they did. Could they have put a higher "W" oil in than needed for the cold days? I think it's meant to have 20W-50 in it.
     
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