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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by kneedragon, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. cant decide who's side to be on,
    qantas or the union,...... but i dont want to see another ansett and the unions are killing their own jobs, it makes the overseas staffing look better..... i think ill go qantas
  2. i think its fair. unreasonable union demands, who would have thought such things? fight fire with fire.

    this is just going off what i have heard but they are better paid than any other carrier, some pilots in smaller aircraft wanted to be paid the same as the guys in the biggest stuff, wanted total job security (ie that they could not ever lose their jobs, ever).

    i wonder how juliar will deal with her union buddies, sure will be interesting.
  3. I don't know all the ins & outs of this intimately, but the bulk of my sympathy is for the staff. That said, a decision was taken some years back to privatise the Australian national flag carrier. Everyone below middle management who worked there said it was a bad idea. Then a decision was taken to allow majority foreign ownership of that company. Upper management screamed that it was the only way forward. Everyone else who worked there said it was the kiss of death.

    In the aftermath of these two decisions, the workers, as represented by their unions, and the shareholders (big institutional ones, not Mum & Dad who got ripped again, just like Telstra) as represented by their board, were both set on a course that was always going to come to this. It was only a question of when. Neither really have any option about their general course.
  4. All very well to bag the unions and yes they haven't been good in all this but when the ceo gets a 70% pay rise at the same time there is something amiss.
  5. I think the only solution for QANTAS is to ditch Joyce and get a CEO and board that will properly engage with the staff- considering the engineers, ground staff AND pilots are all at odds with management makes whether or not the unions fold irrelevant; since either way a whole lotta staff are gonna be looking for new jobs...

    In any case the folks at VA will likely be scrambling for planes and pilots with huge grins as the $$$ roll in.
  6. I was involved in a 5 month lockout at my company in 1999/2000. Some of the scars have never healed and some people only talk to each other if they must. A lockout is not a good tactic.
  7. i want to be a baggage handler. Starting rate is 70k p/a. plus penalties and overtime. 5 weeks annual leave, 5 days off each fortnight, double time for 4 hours minimum when called in.

    pretty reasonable for unskilled labour. but of course they want more.
  8. Hey Jimmy - Have you ever heard of BSF Whitworth-Socket? What about the Doug Anthony all stars?

    I grew up in a country that hadn't known widespread poverty and hardship since the second world war. I spent some of my childhood with my grand parents, who were already married when the great depression hit. I've never seen widespread hardship, but they did. What I learned from them was that I lived in a lucky country, for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that we have a 40 hour week and a minimum wage and a basic standard of social welfare, and we have those things because the working men and women of this country fought for them with bare knuckles and pick handles. I'm lucky to live in a country where young men who've never gone to bed hungry or slept rough can loudly condemn the working men and women of today for continuing to fight for their rights, rights those same young men accept as their due.
  9. the unions can hold out longer than Qantas (or their prospective buyer)

    Sent from that little tiny chip in my brain
  10. Damn right KD, unions can be a pain in the ass at times but noone shouts when it's their job being fought for. In regards to a pay rise, I can't speak for the baggage handlers but as for the engineers, Jimmy I'm sure you would appreciate knowing that your plane will reach its dock on the other side still as one functioning unit.
  11. For what it's worth, I am not (directly) involved with what is happening at Qantas at present, though my twin brother IS - B767 First Officer. Though being involved in the industry, this WILL have a large affect on me...and all of us.

    All I can say, from reading news articles, television repeats and more so discussions with current (affected) Qantas staff is that this is NOT a pleasant time for anybody !
    Back when Ansett fell over, which affected the lives of thousands upon thousands of hardworking people and their families, businesses etc, I too was left stranded. Now, I don't just mean without a job (I was stood down immediately upon return to my Adelaide base) or what was to happen the next day - I was employed with Ansett's major subsidiary airline, Kendell Airlines (now REX) and after ferrying an empty aircraft with 3 of us aboard the Saab 340 bound for the company's hub, Wagga Wagga, we were left (4 of us, out of the many others who had been flown back to their respective bases) to drive ourselves back to Adelaide, in a Commodore. That was NOT a nice feeling, and this was my last flight with this company. We arrived back in Adelaide at 11:30pm, unsure which path our lives would next take, how to pay the rent, what to eat, where to go... depressing times.

    I was dating an Ansett Flight Attendant at the time and the stories I constantly heard of families tearing apart, divorces, suicides etc was alarming ! Never did I wish this on anyone, in any industry. Luckily, I found my feet 2 months later, but those times were very stressful for me, even as a single very career-driven and focused individual who had, at the time, believed I had finally made it ! Prior to the collapse, I was being summoned by Ansett to prepare for a mainline interview process....

    What is occurring at Qantas appears to be a mirror image of what was allowed to occur to Ansett, the latter (in my opinion) being the best Airline in existence, ever. This country has NOT learnt from its former blunders, yet allows the same mistakes to reoccur. In this case, the Union at Qantas, a very 'powerful' body has taken drastic steps to fight against Alan Joyce's destructive plans, who himself is set (some may say this is all pre-meditated) to destroy Australia's ONLY icon Airline - Qantas. A lockout is NOT a pleasant experience, at all.

    My sincerest thoughts extend to all those affected. There are over 70,000 passengers who have been hugely inconvenienced by these INSANE recent and power-driven actions of Union vs Management at Qantas.
    Staff have been left stranded and wherever they may be, I sincerely hope they all return to their families and homes safely.

    Many of my Qantas industry colleagues mention this is the beginning of possibly the end of this great airline. I certainly hope the fight prevails, and the losers (management arseholes) finally realise screwing people's lives, a nation's financial standings etc for their own short term (huge) gains is NOT acceptable. If ONLY the shareholders had ANY idea (insight) as to what was happening......

    We lost Ansett, my friends. We are now on the brink of losing the world's oldest airline, OUR very own icon..and this saddens me. This 'disaster' will affect more of us than we think, whether industry related or otherwise. We need to support all our friends, family members and industry related people in this fight to uphold their conditions of service and avoid this airline being driven abroad, shredded to pieces. Ansett's demise affected the whole of Australia - this will be no different.

    A very nasty situation developing, with certain management types receiving death threats prior to the recent debacle !
    I hope this is resolved expeditiously and safely in the best interests of all.
  12. I have the understanding that qantas was one of the only airlines in the world consistently in the black. That's a shame...

    Nickers, if a foreign airline company did happen to buy qantas, would they be allowed to run general international flights from Australia to around the globe?
  13. Are you aware they recently rebranded as Virgin Australia, with livery and uniform changes to match? ;D

    Lilley, it would depend on how it was bought- if the assets (ie planes) were bought and repainted for Singapore or Cathay, then no (unless legislative change was brought about), however if QANTAS is bought and operated as a subsidiary but still an AUS-based company (similar to how Singair has Tiger) then yes.

    Though I'd suggest the most likely outcome would be a sizeable increase in Jetstar's fleet, if such a thing eventuates.
  14. In 8 days I was flying with Qantas to the US for my first overseas trip since I was a wee lad. Shitloads of internal flights booked, accomodation, entertainment, car hire. Dunno if it'll go ahead now.

  15. Yes, Schwalbe. I have many friends working for Virgin Australia.
    Virgin Blue was used loosely..more of an indication of what replaced Ansett, broadly speaking..and what they're becoming now. I am sincerely impressed with how VA are enhancing their product (they even wear airline caps now, no brown leather jackets ;) ) whereas Joyce has fought hard to do the opposite ](*,)

    Cheers mate.
  16. Nickers

    What is occurring at Qantas appears to be a mirror image of what was allowed to occur to Ansett, the latter (in my opinion) being the best Airline in existence, ever. This country has NOT learnt from its former blunders, yet allows the same mistakes to reoccur. In this case, the Union at Qantas, a very 'powerful' body has taken drastic steps to fight against Alan Joyce's destructive plans, who himself is set (some may say this is all pre-meditated) to destroy Australia's ONLY icon Airline

    The question now is who os he really working for then ?

    is this Industrial sabotage ?

    I do not see our bueracrats and politicians or the people of Aus letting our national carrier go under and be sold of to a foreign company
  17. Tak, the polly's and Q management will do whatever they want and the australian public will biatch and moan about it and effectively do nothing. Quantas management voting the boss a 2mill payrise right now is either sheer stupidity or a means to get Quantas off shore. The lockout points to the latter.

    Payscales - 2001 I drove a truck for about $15? an hour award rate, the current award rate is $30 an hour. Good money if there is someone around to pay it. The job hasnt got twice as hard in 10 years.
  18. That's it right there .. not a big union fan myself .. but in this case ..they get my vote .. the CEO get's a 70% pay increase and his big plan to save money so they can pay that increase is to move even more of the work overseas ....
  19. I've never been a union fan myself but Joyce is playing the power fight here...
    Would have thought that keeping as many planes in the air as possible through any dispute would have been the highest priority...

    And giving himself a multi-million dollar pay rise in the middle of it?
    Can't help believe that he doesn't give a rats about whatever happens to the most important asset of any company, it's people and customers so long as he ends up with the largest slice of the cake FIRST!
    A good leader brings people together by inspiring even at his own expence.

    I say get rid of him and put in someone who at the very least sounds like an aussie.