Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Put your left cheek in and shake it all about

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' at netrider.net.au started by Ljiljan, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. Gave into temptation this morning and went for a ride through the Royal Natio Park when I should be trying to sell my bike instead. I'll get around to it. Anyway, I had the liberty of following behind an SP2 and an MV Augusta F4 before they duly let me pass on my humble steed, the 'osung.

    I could not help but notice the contrast between my riding style and theirs. I stick to my seat like flies to a dead roo because I know that I dont ride anywhere near hard enough to get any major gain from hanging my rear out all over the place, but I have no hesitation in sticking my head out as far as possible because I know that will actually get me through a corner. But SP2 and F4 had other ideas. Both were moving their ass about as though they were dancing on a pillion retention device, but keeping their head dead in line with or even on the opposite side of the axis of the bike. Funnily enough, both let me past fairly quickly.

    As far as I can see, unless someone is really giving the bike some hussle, there is bugger all advantage to jumping around over the bike. And when done poorly, I'm sure they were actually cornering slower than if they would just sit straight over the centre of the bike and not shift at all. But Rossi and Stoner done it so I gotta done it too. I honestly just can't see the point when there is still a good centimeter of Colonel Sander's Favourites on the edges of your bikes tyre.

    gahh.

    Also interestingly, in the same group as the SP2 a Ducati monster ST something almost ran straight into a rock wall on the way down to the McKell Avenue intersection, just after the lady carrington end point. He ended up on the dirt between the road and the rock face, and people who know the road know how little room there is at that point and how close he got to major hurt. You would think by the time your riding a ducati you would know to push and keep pushing through a corner. To be fair, it is a very intimidating corner to push through if your coming at hard and unaware, and chances are if you do make it through you will go right of the other side as it flipflops back immediately and just as sharply. However he wasnt going particularly fast - same speed as everyone else around - and definitely could have made it.



    But they were my observations from a morning's ride.
     
     Top
  2. Lots of blokes want to stick a knee out but they don't know how. I shift my weight because it sets me up alot better for corners, if done properly you can carry quite a bit of speed and the transitions work well. The trick is to slide across the seat and not stand up when you transition. and yeh head past the mirror should be your first priority.

    Depending on how paced i'm riding, i might or might not shift my weight. If I feel like having a slow day I won't make as big movements. It all depends on the mood etc.

    I'm pretty sure moving the weight around works for me though cause i'm usually the quicker rider in the groups that I go in... but then again that would be expected after spending all that bloody cash on courses....
     
     Top
  3. Over the years, and especially after looking at the styles of various racers, everyone has their own style that works for them. Mick Doohan and Troy Bayliss both had fairly arse-off with body upright sorts of styles. Seemed to work for them. I have a mate who rides arse off and body up, and he can ride rings around many and has no chicken strips.

    Chicken strips alone aren't a great indicator of someone's pace though. You can hang off a fair way, still have a 10mm chicken strip, and be ripping along at a pace faster than 95% of what the typical weekend warrior types seem to manage. I've seen guys with zero chicken strips front and rear, and they go slow as. Tyre profile and pressure has a lot to do with it too.

    As for the off-road adventurer, let's just say that you can be as enthusiastic about bikes as you want, and have the wallet size to support your enthusiasm, but being an enthusiast is no guarantee that you're good at something.

    I've been to track days where Ducati clubs have participated. Let's just say that despite the top-dollar equipment on offer, probably less than 5% of the machines ever get ridden in anything like the manner for which they were designed. On the public road, and this is purely in my personal experience, it'd be more like 2%.
     
     Top
  4. Usually its R1's that cop it in these threads! I move my weight on roads I don't know as I find it easier to deal with corners that tighten if my weight is already well to the inside. Also if there is gravel or whatever in a corner its easier to handle if the bike is more upright. I also sometimes move my weight on roads where its not necessary as practice. Have to learn somewhere.
     
     Top
  5. i find it more fun to stick a new out. probably not needed, but i don't care. it's fun, and i'll do continue to keep on doing it.
     
     Top
  6. Ey lad just re-read your post.

    On this point, when you get a new bike you need to re-learn alot of skills that you might have been adept at with your old bike. When I first jumped on the storm I was nervous as hell and all over the shop. It takes a bit to come into your own again especially on a bigger machine. For all you know that bike could have been his learner upgrade or he could have even been unlicenced and rolling around on it (yeh dumb on a ducati :rofl:).

    There are alot of riders who don't know how to corner and when they ask their friends what to do they will say "you need to hang off the bike" which most people interpret as getting their arse as far off the seat as possible in the hopes of some knee scrapage. You only need a fairly small movement which still allows your outside leg to grip the tank. IMO when its done properly with good lines, late quicksteers and gradual throttle application, a well positioned body on a bike is very well placed in a corner.

    When people ask me about the correct body positioning i usually get them to hold the mirrors of my bike while I demonstrate the position and explain what each appendage is doing through the corners then i'll get them to have a sit and do the same. Then we go to the hills and practice and i'll give feedback on how it looks and how good their lines are etc.

    If we had more people taking the time to do this we would have a lot more people riding their bikes efficiently and would ensure that alot more riders would not be hanging off their bikes like rabid apes seeking knee tarmac. Lilley I reckon by the sounds of the speed you are carrying, it might be about time to start hanging off. You obviously know that dropping the shoulder works, just have a day in the hills where you slide in your seat a bit and open up your hip as well. As long as you are doing it right and gripping the tank with the outside leg you are doing fine. It won't kill you to experiment a bit before the upgrade ;)
     
     Top
  7. I do love it when I'm cruising behind someone who imagines themselves to be a bit of a guru, arse off the seat, knee out, check my reaction in the mirror...

    ...to find I'm riding one handed and looking at the scenery.

    :cheeky:
     
     Top
  8. Wow! I wonder where the rider bought their telescopic rear vision mirrors from? :LOL:
     
     Top
  9. :rofl:

    There's a quick witted reply! bahahaha
     
     Top
  10. Lilley, if you have TOTW2, the riding style you've just described is called "crossed up". It does negate the benefit of moving weight to the inside of the bike, but it can give you better vision at times. It's not "wrong" per se' (see Flux's post) but if you're trying to weightshift in order to give your bike the maximum ground clearance for that corner and your speed, then keeping your head centralised while sliding off the seat is going to be counter productive. Being crossed up also twists your hips and means you're more likely to use the handle bars as the leverage point to get you back on the bike.


    You're already moving a fair bit of weight to the inside of the bike - given that most weight is carried in the upper part of the body... if you need to move more, lock the outside leg into the bike and slide your arse over.
     
     Top
  11. thanks rob, but note that it wasnt me doing it ;)
     
     Top
  12. Yep, got that. The last sentence was positive and directed at you.
     
     Top
  13. ahh, ok cheers. :)
     
     Top
  14. If I'm not just riding lazy, I will always prepare my body position appropriately for a corner. Whether that be just a role onto the inside arsk-cheek, hanging off a half a cheek or a full cheek out in the breeze.
    I do that so that I am prepared. If it was'nt needed, then it does'nt matter, but it is WAY better than being caught on the outside of the bike should the corner tighten or be sharper than expected from the visual cues on approach.

    Maybe the guys were just aping it, thinking they looked cool (tossers), or maybe they were training themselves, or doing what I do.
    Half the time I hang off an appropriate amount and then realize that I could have just sat there...:))...but I don't mind.

    But I do see alot of supposedly new riders completely over-reaching for every corner and this is actually detrimental to their speed/balance co-ordination, and makes them SLOWER!. :)

    John.
     
     Top
  15. #15 Not4Resale, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    [media=youtube]5wYD9SSBBNQ[/media]

    seriously lad i don't know why the hell you are so adamant about keeping your arse dead centre on the bike. Fair enough for newer people that won't be hitting any descent speeds but ffs good form is good form! You are only cutting your own hedges by limiting yourself in this way.
     
     Top
  16. That is certainly a brilliant idea and everyone should have a go at least once


    I'd love to get some real feedback on cornering but I don't know anyone that could help, apart from paying several hundred (if not more) in professional training.

    If anyone wants to ;).. you know how to contact me.. I'll totally make it worth your while

    Oh and I think Morgan Park raceway (5 mins from me) is open to the public every wednesday (I'll try and find out more soon)
    But last time I spoke with Bill Campbell he said it was like $50-80 for the whole day, probably extra for a pit bay.
    Only problem is he's a nazi for dragging dirt on the track, or hitting a cone
    Which I totally never did :angel:

    *cough*


    -
    Chris
     
     Top
  17. I think there is a bit more to hanging off than just going faster. When I've got a cheek off the seat and am balanced on the bike, then there is definitely a greater level of feedback from the road, bumps do not upset the balance of the bike as much and I am able to react quicker to something unexpected.

    It's a different skill though, I know when I went on the ride with you last month I was quicker if I just sat on the bike and concentrated on the turns as I had lost the ability to comfortably hang off. But I knew there was a better way and just need the practice. Still do...
     
     Top
  18. wouldnt use the term adamant myself, rather i think its unnecessary. And in the two cases mentioned in the opening post, I didnt see any particular advantage from it. I might give it a try and see what goes.
     
     Top
  19. Thnx...now I`m homesick
     
     Top
  20. Consider it from this perspective (If you will).
    The more you get off the bike, the less the bike needs to lean (Yeah I know this is the blatantly obvious bit).
    Suspension is designed to go up and down, so the more lean your bike has, the poorer the suspension response will be.
    You ride a 250, and 250s are built to a price. (Read the suspension is not what it could be)
    So if you hit a bump or did mid corner, having the bike leaned over more than is necessary can be detrimental to your corner stability and handling. So by getting off the bike (At least a little) you are giving yourself additional safety.
    Add to this that if you are off the seat you have more of your body weight in your legs, essentially adding an other layer of suspension on your body and improving the traction further
     
     Top