Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Protective clothing research

Discussion in 'Welcome Lounge' at netrider.net.au started by Teal, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. #1 Teal, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2015
    Hi my name is Liz.

    I’m a motorcycle researcher. I wrote the Good Gear Guide and I also ran the Gear study, in which we interviewed 212 riders after they crashed, to see how well their gear protected them.

    It has been great visiting this forum to find that a lot of riders think this has been useful work. This is a link to the results of the Gear Study, although I note there is also a link on this site.

    See [media=youtube]NlovDQM0TnA[/media] .

    As you know, most of the gear worked really well, but over a quarter of the motorcycle jackets, pants and gloves failed in crashes. So now we are looking at ways of getting reliable information to riders about which products will do the job.

    I am logging in here to ask what sort of information would help you to decide which motorcycle protective clothing to buy. What are the issues for you in buying and wearing protective gear? How much of an issue is hot weather?

    We are going to run a national survey of riders, but I wanted to get some feedback from rider discussion forums first. To make sure we are on the right track.

    Cheers



    Liz
     
     Top
  2. I don't know if it applies in this particular instance, but you might wanna wing a message to 'Mouth' or one of the mods just to let them know what you're up to. Might just be vendor sales and whatnot, but can't hurt. Now for your questions

    Honestly one of the biggest factors for me when I chose my gear was comfort and fitting. I have a hard time finding jackets that fit so when I found one that did, I stuck with it. Issues are high costs, comfort, wearability off the bike, and how well they breathe. Hot weather is a huge issue for me, yesterday was windy as hell and I still arrived home (after only 15 minute commute) covered in sweat from my stupid bulky jacket. I think if you could develop much thinner materials with the same safety ratings, you wouldn't have a lot of competition until someone else matched it. It's very isolating wearing so much stuff all the time...
     
     Top
  3. I sniff a thinly veiled government funded initiative conducting research to enforce something upon us in the near future where if we do not comply we will be penalised


    If the study was conducted in the ACT as you state then you would have come across my brand gear for sure

    Quote from your video - "we have to do something about quality control"

    means new standards for stuff - means higher expense - means more people bitching about prices being cheaper overseas than here and how we have to wear gear with Aus standard ( Like Helmets )

    incentive to wear gear - survival

    I did like the "real world " test comment - you can not recreate it in a lab due to infinite variables

    however I am sure with enough $$$$ paid you might find some human crash test dummies :)
     
     Top
  4. I went to the site 'spoke.com' and looked around as the TAC 'initiative' I noticed that ALL products listed and explanation ALL related to 'Europe' standards... Is this 'normal' ?? Maybe someone more in tune can answer this for me..
    I know I am wearing kevlar jeans with pads and protection on knees and hips, not a 'common' name by 'commercial' standards but must say I feel 'safer' wearing these ones.
     
     Top
  5. Cheers

    because I am one man operation and not a faceless share holder owned company - I personally take the responsibility of ensuring product is top grade that I produce ( my jeans for example have become better stronger etc over the last 18 months - continual improvement )

    my customers are not the only important people to me but also their friends and loved ones -- my customers have brothers, sisters, mothers fathers uncles aunts husbands and wives sons daughters etc

    I have a duty to the others not just the paying customer to ensure their loved ones receive the protection they pay for
     
     Top
  6. This thread isn't much of a birthday greeting....
     
     Top
  7. Hi Liz, welcome to NR.

    Those of us who look at motorcycle research figure you're one of the good guys - you'll note plenty of anti MUARC stuff on here. (Edit: they're not the good guys)


    Noobs who only partly listen to the noise about gear walk away with an impression that it will save their lives and that it is a primary safety device. It might save their life but more than likely it wont - it's not a crumple zone or curtain air bag. It's not a primary safety device since a lack of gear isn't likely to cause an accident and neither is an abundance of gear likely to avoid one.

    Some truth about gear and a star rating would be brilliant. Triple stitched, top grain leather, CE armour, articulated limbs, top flight zips etc etc might attract 5 stars for comfort and crash resiliance for example.


    The question about weather is important. Gear should not be mandated. Australia has multiple climates and the wrong mandatory gear on the wrong day can play havoc with your concentration. Education rather than regulation is the way.
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Seeing as I had an off last Nov and was wearing 'commercial' branded kevlars I feel these new Motorlegions are thicker in material, stitching looking triple?? and Hip protectors that I never thought about having tops them off. I spent a week in hospital due to surgery on hand and about 8 weeks off work due to hook hangin out of hand and frac ribs/scapula. it aint the fall that hurts but the sudden stop. Takamii your 'personal test' with your gear is what convinced me to get the quality stuff from you. Keep up the good work, I try and spruke you where possible!! the little guys have the better reason for 'quality' work.
     
     Top
  9. I'd have to say that there were a couple of "No shit Sherlock" moments in the video but I can see how it watching it can back up the AT(A)GATT advice that exists which flows on to the point that was made regarding insurance costs.

    I like the idea that insurance companies could vary premiums and excess costs based on a rider's level of protective clothing ie if a rider chooses to squid in tank and boardies they should be aware that it's going to cost them more than the rider in full leathers should they some how manage to have identical mishaps.

    Now the labelling issue. I took the comments to suggest that the researchers would like to see manufacturers clearly label their intentions regarding a product. A motoX jersey is motorcycle apparel but it isn't protective clothing when compared to Dri-Rider jacket for example which suggests that clear differentiation is needed, especially if insurers are going to be asked to offer cost benefits regarding clothing. This could be what the calls for a standard are relating to - a clear industry wide standard label that says "This is motorcycle PPE!" beyond that it is up the the manufacturer to put their money, mouth and reputation on the line and back their products and the service they proclaim it to provide. Just like @Takamii did here

    On a personal note, I not only believe that motorcycle PPE is important but that it in my case it may well have been the difference between life and death.
     
     Top
  10. Living in Geraldton, comfort does rate highly for me. It is too hot too much of the year for lots of the gear to be comfortable. Zip out liners, breathable gloves etc all help, but ultimately a 40 degree day means you arrive in a pool of sweat.

    I would love to see a star rating system - opt in for manufacturers. If it doesn't have stars then it would be obviously questioned. When I look for gear I tend to look for known brands, and from known retailers because I am concerned about how protective it is. When most of my riding is at 110km/h, an off would mean lots and lots of skin missing unless the gear is good enough to survive.
     
     Top
  11. A government run sharp type system would be good as the sharp system works where the emplyees buy the stuff of the shelf in a shop then test and report on it

    this means manufacturers can not do and submit a "special" extra strengthed etc version for testing

    the anominity of the sharp system is brilliant
     
     Top
  12. I haven't seen the video, but how does gear impact on motorcycle insurance damage??? You mean health insurance? In either case, this is blindingly ridiculous thinking which blames the victim. What gear do you recommend on a 40degree 90% humidity day? Will mesh gear attract a less payment than leather gear? Will textile gear attract less payment than mesh gear? Will Dainese gear ensures full medical insurance payments whilst pakistani gear ensures higher medical costs for the rider? What if the reduced gear wearing rider was riding perfectly safely but was collected by a driver that failed to heed a stop sign - is the rider punished by having to wear more medical expenses?

    Seriously mate, this is exactly the kind of thinking that I was warning about. What gear can do is not well understood by riders. Don't be bloody encouraging the contributory negligent type of argument because it only leads to all riders getting shafted.


    A 100km/h impact with or without gear is likely to have the same internal damage and broken bones. There's likely to be less road rash. Does that mean the reduced gear wearing rider that survives has to pay more medical costs as compared to the gear wearing rider who would have both sustained similar levels of injury??

    And where does it stop? Plenty of car accident victims with brain damage. Do we penalise them for not wearing crash helmets inside cars?? Do drivers or passengers get penalised for not wearing seat belts? Do drivers get penalised for having marginal tread on a tyre?

    This kind of thinking has to stop. Open your eyes.




    What aspect of your gear saved your life mate? Explain.
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 2
  13. A Sharp style rating system is a great idea.

    Mandated gear is not.

    Insurance/registration savings based on level of gear worn is a borderline bad idea, I can easily see it going the wrong way.
     
     Top
  14. Any mention of fluoro as a good idea and the deal is off
     
     Top
    • Like Like x 2
  15. agreed +1
     
     Top
  16. Hrm, so someone who cant afford to buy top shelf leathers will just have to pay extra on insurance eh? As compared to the squid in the tank top and shorts who doesnt give a flying **** and doesnt buy insurance anyway? Thats a brilliant idea.
     
     Top
  17. #17 blocka, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2015
    While I do own alot of protective gears, helmets, gloves, jackets and boots. I have only ever worn normal jeans when riding and the times I have come off my jeans are the only things that have not had any marks or abrasions, that includes sliding down the road for about 30m
     
     Top
  18. I think what was being got at was that if your are wearing full gear from say, an approved list of motorcycle ppe, or partial gear from the same list, you would get a discount relative to the gear you are wearing. Let's say that the gear on this list covers all motorcycle ppe from shitty stuff like rjays to top stuff from the big guys. I don't think its such an unreasonable proposition.

    I don't think it will prevent any accidents though. It will merely reward more conscientious riders. Perhaps taking gst off all ppe would be a better move.

    Regardless, if it feeds complacency, then it should be avoided.
     
     Top
  19. Hello Liz, welcome.

    Forgive me if I don't follow your link or read your guide. I will answer your question.

    I don't research riding gear online, or in print media. I look, I think, I relate to personal experience and observation and then go with fit and finish and apparent quality of materials and construction, comfort ... In other words, I don't ask other people - I buy what I think is best.
     
     Top
  20. you anticonformist you :)
     
     Top