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Props to Honda Australia

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by Bravus, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. This is one example: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24294563-953,00.html

    But I've been impressed with the way Honda Australia has been very active in lobbying politicians on behalf of riders, commenting on governmental nonsense and applauding safety improvements and so on. They seem to be being very responsible advocates for bikes and riding, and it's good to see.

  2. +1 to that, and i reckon that right there is half the problem
    this i am not so keen on.....you want to wear fluro vest go ahead but don't force everyone to....farking free country and choice :roll:
  3. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that QLD's "if you ride a powered-two-wheeler, you're GOING TO DIE" campaign is pointlessly counterproductive and destructive for the purposes of encouraging road safety.

    Just a pity that they didn't put much weight behind his concerns, or elaborate on them. "This man has concerns, but just as the ad campaign doesn't elaborate on how to positively address the problem of road safety, we won't elaborate on why he feels the 'safety' campaign is damaging".

  4. Ah the media loves that, someone telling australia that all motorcycle accidents are their fault, they're stupid idiots and if you run them over its their fault no matter what. :roll:
  5. Would I need to wear one, as I ride a fluro bike?? :LOL:
  6. dude,its a ninja.it will avoid an accident much sooner than you can :p

    im far more concerned about the licencing system for drivers than riders.i learned so much about controlling a bike when i got my licence 17 years ago and the rest was pretty much up to me to practice the skills and not be an idiot.reading traffic and avoiding cars only comes with experience but im certain a car will harm me before i harm myself.
  7. Fact is, the vast majority of motorcycle accidents ARE teh rider's fault.
    The whole motorcycling bury the head in the sand and blame everyone and everything else for your accident mentality is counterproductive and is at least partially responsible for the accidents we have being the same year in and year out.
    I still don't see how failing to take a turn on a motorcycle is some other road user's fault, even thouh it is painted that way so many times.....

    Regards, Andrew.
  8. Yeah but, no but yeah but,

    What you will find in the majority of accidents are that the rider(s) did not think like a car driver. Does this make sense?

    Most riders can read, anticipate possible hazards at a (I believe) better level than the average cage.
    This leads to (i believe) an false sense of security and therefore potential to go beyond what car drives will consider normal.

    End result
    "sorry mate, didnt see you" etc etc
    (was the rider travelling or accelerating at a speed unacustomed to the driver?)

    Please correct me if I'm wrong (as i often am!!)


  9. i dont agree. thats my answer ..

    require you to have 1 yr car licence also? ... err no
  10. :applause:
  11. i dont think thats such a terrible idea. the minimum would be a car license at 17 then a bike license at 18, thats still a very young age for being out on the road. i was out on the roads for about 5 years before getting on the bike and that has helped enormously. the only thing i need to develop is bike control, as ive already developed defensive driving in a nice safe cage.
  12. I dunno... while I agree that car drivers who've never ridden a bike are not good at looking for bikes or judging their speed and maneuverability, I don't think that really supports your argument.

    (a) As a motorcycle rider you know that you are less visible to cars, and that it is hard to judge your speed. Given that knowledge, you should ride accordingly. If a car driver hits you because they didn't see you, doesn't that suggest that you should have been riding more defensively? Obviously there will always be cases that you honestly can't avoid, but in general I'd say that the driver and the rider have to share responsibility for the crash - if not the blame.

    (b) http://www.tac.vic.gov.au/jsp/conte...000010080CB01769D7023&navLink=null&pageID=166
    From my reading of these stats there were 1043 accidents involving motorcycles in Victoria last year that ended in a death or serious injury. 552 of these were single-vehicle accidents, which is more than half of the total. This is a higher number of deaths and injuries than all of the other categories combined. Car drivers can't be blamed for these crashes. And that doesn't include the 87 crashes where the motorcycle was overtaking or pulling out of a driveway or doing a u-turn making some other kind of manoeuver. If you include those incidents you have something like 61% of all deaths and injuries having a direct cause rooted in rider behaviour.

    Still - 396 (almost 38%) of the crashes were at intersections, or involved a head on collision, or a bike being side-swiped or rear-ended by a car. Clearly we are at risk from the behaviour of others on the road. I think that we owe it to ourselves to ride as if we recognise the situation and not rely on them seeing us or being able to inderstand the capabilities of our bikes.
  13. Bingo...
  14. I choose not to go out and push past the edge of the envelope on the twisties. :)

    I also choose not to have some clown run into me and then claim they didn't see me. :cry:

    One of these choices I can control, the other I can't.

    The one I can't control scares me, because my saftey is in the hands of the lowest common denominator.
  15. Ain't that the truth. :(
  16. Dont forget that some single vehicle accidents on a bike aint. If you go down dodging some one, it may well get recorded as a single vehicle accident. My gut feel is that this would be a big proportion, just guessimating on the number of near ones I have had. Something like at least 20% (And yes that absolutely IS a guess)
  17. That's true, percrime, but the vast majority of single vehicle accidents are exactly that. And also remember that I didn't count the head on collisions, many of which will be because a bike ran wide in a turn and drifted into the oncoming lane of traffic. Of course, many of them are because a car was cutting a corner, and encroached on the bike's lane.

    I think that the point is still valid. How you ride has a massive impact on whether you are injured or killed in a motorcycle accident. Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
  18. From reports and what little data there is available, I'd say less than 10% at a rough estimate.

    While there are a lot of gaps in our figures, there's also a lot of contradictions. Even the figures from insurance companies are widely divergent. Swann (I think) put 49% of their multi-vehicle claims for bikes as rear end collisions (that's both car -> bike and bike -> car). Other insurance companies put them as low as 30%.

    By far the majority of deaths are single vehicle crashes. Because there is a coronial investigation we have pretty good information there. There were no implications in these of any cars being involved at all (almost all had one or more witnesses - usually other riders).

    What information we do have tells us that most single motorcycle crashes are caused by inappropriate cornering. That is usually cornering too fast for the conditions, braking inappropriately, inexperience or combinations of these.

    There is also a proportion that has poor road surfaces contributing (as well as oil, gravel, moss, leaves etc) but that's a minority of crashes.
    It appears that most people go in a little too hard and muck the corner up. Not necessarily over the speed limit and often at speeds that other riders have had no problem with.
  19. 18 is a very old age for a motorcycle licence by world standards. Moped licences at 15 or 16 are not uncommon followed by a motorcycle licence at 16 or 17. What evidence there is (and there's not many studies) appears to show that getting a motorcycle licence and experience prior to getting a car licence makes for a lower crash rate in cars. There doesn't appear to be any real diffence in long term motorcycle crash rates between those who had a car licence first or those that didn't. In either case, it seems that the most dangerous period for motorcycle crashes is not necessarily when you are on Ls or Ps but when you have a couple of years experience. Again, not a lot of local information here and I'm wary about using the European studies since the exposure patterns are far different (a lot more urban riding for one thing).

    Certainly some of the preliminary stuff from a study that MUARC did last year points to motorcyclists having a far superior hazard perception time than non-motorcyclists. We're talking up to two or three seconds faster hazard perception for riders (and that's both when they are riding or driving).
  20. You could argue that the road surface (oil, gravel, leaves, etc.) is a contributing factor, but really that means that the speed was too great for the surface conditions. If you can't see far enough around a corner to notice the gravel or leaves then you should be slowing down. If there are patches of discoloration on the road that could be water, oil, brake fluid, or ice, then you should be slowing down. If you can see that other traffic has scattered gravel into your cornering line then you should be slowing down.

    I may sound like a complete nanna, but when I was 18 I rolled my first car taking a corner too quickly and hitting a ditch left behind by some cable works. I was already sliding the rear end a bit, so hitting the rough road surface was enough to tip the car over. It was nobody's fault but mine, because I was taking the corner at high speed when I couldn't see far enough around to monitor the road condition. If I'd been on a bike I might have been killed. As it was I lost all the skin from my right forearm from trying to keep my head from going out the open window, and nearly ended up with my car on its side on a rail crossing.

    It certainly taught me the hard way that even roads you know really well can throw up surprises, and if you care travelling too fast to see what is about to happen to you then you are taking your life into your hands.