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practicing e-braking

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by cleanhands, Dec 20, 2009.

  1. Its so easy to accelerate up to 80km but try stopping, not so easy...

    I just went out to try out some e-braking on the bike and had a few questions:

    every time I braked I created very long skid marks on the road. This is likely a problem with my tyre pressure right?

    I was stopping from 40-50km only... I've done emergency stops in a car at 60km and I didn't see any serious skid marks.

    I'll admit that I haven't checked the pressure once, so I'm going to buy a gauge and get around to that.

    My front brakes would also screech every now and then I assume this is the wheels locking up? I couldn't really tell because I kept locking up the back wheel and the bike would weave side to side.

    What's the deal with the back break? I would barely put any pressure on it and continuously managed to lock it up even from 40km/h.

    Any tips on how to approach emergency braking? Its so much more difficult than a car with ABS when you can just stomp on the breaks. I'm worried about locking the wheels and coming off. Should I be looking to gradually build up the amount of pressure I'm putting on the breaks after many trials? how do I tell if I'm about to low-side?

    If I'm practicing some long sessions of emergency braking over a few days is there a good chance that I've worn out my tyres or any other braking parts?
  2. .......gremlins
  3. Cleanhands, you're most likely locking the rear wheel to cause the skidmarks you see. If the front locks up, you tend to know about it. But your lack of understanding of what's going on is a bit frightening to me, can I suggest you get some training? The HART intermediate course is very good and has a solid discussion about different types of emergency braking.
  4. Did you do the learners course? - We did lots of emergency braking in the course (and it was required to get our Ls.)
  5. What Loz said. I just read a few of your other posts and I'd highly recommend some further training. If you're leaving skid marks, and don't know why, then you really need a little bit of guidance. Especially if it's because you were practicing braking in response to why your bike was 'swaying' under brakes.

    You could do an official course, or just find an experienced mentor who can ride with you, that you are willing to take constructive criticism from.

  6. Yeah I'm definitely up for that. I did the learners course but our emergency stops were from 20km/h and it was just lightly touch the breaks and stop before this line. Nothing detailed.

    I was actually thinking of doing the Stay Upright Intermediate or Advanced course after I go for my P's...
  7. My learner course was pretty detailed and it was more than a gentle touch on the brakes.

    You could come down to Saturday practice - although you won't get up to 80km/h in the car park (well....)
  8. Well in an abs car you shouldn't be just stomping on it... But thats another story for another site I guess.

    But what I've been doing is as you say, slowly building it up. I mean you can't expect to have it spot on straight away. Just build up feeling the grip. Which atm seems you're just jumping on the brake. I'm by no means Micky D, and still learning myself, but if you're locking it up you're doing it wrong!

    I started out at 30kmh, that speed its pretty hard to lock it up at all unless you're being really stupid.

    The more senior users on here will give you a better idea on what to do. But I'd just slowly build it up.
  9. I just did my L's a couple of months back. We did some emergency braking but as mentioned before it was only from 20-30km/h (I did it from ~35km/h once and the teachers said they'll issue me with a speeding ticket) :D

    Cleanhands, I'm hoping to go practice my emergency breaking with a few newly found friends on tuesday night.
    I'm sure you'll be more than welcome :)
  10. How do you figure that?
  11. Go a little easier on the rear brake to get a feel of it, instead of locking it up.
    Take care not to lock the front up otherwise its tits up time, unless you let go fast enough.

    Once you have a feel for it, work your way up in speed.
  12. do a course before you hurt yourself.

    the front tyres "crackles" before it lets go. when it does let go you know it.

    under heavy braking there isn't much weight on the rear and it skids easily. many of us don't use the rear for that reason.
  13. Can you get to Saturday learner practice???.
  14. What has been suggested already about getting to HART or similar cornering/braking course is the best advice.

    Though until you get to one of these courses, you can still practice the basics which of emergency braking....which is to set then squeeze, it's all done in one smooth flowing motion....It's the same technique at any speed above carpark/walking pace

    Also sounds like like you are using a lot more rear then front.

  15. If you are having that much of an issue then you have to take your braking back to basics. As has been said by several in this thread some instruction or mentoring is probably your best bet, but if you want to keep practicing then I would advise you back off from attempting to e-brake, and start working on the basics.
    If you are skidding then leave the rear brake out of it for the moment (Read some of Rob’s threads on the evils of the rear brake).
    Braking is not about yanking on the leaver. It is about first setting the bike up then increasing the brake pressure progressively.
    First pull the brake leaver in enough to start the front dipping. Once it has gone down as far as it feels it will go then progressively apply more force. As you get better at this you will be able to increase how quickly your progress from set up to braking.
    Separately of this it sounds like you need to learn to be a little more gentle on the rear brake, it sounds like you may be stomping it a little. But I would advice starting working on one thing at a time so you can concentrate on what you are doing.
    Oh and don’t go straight to 80kph e-braking, start at 20 then 30 then 40 … let your comfort and responses work up to it.
  16. By teaching it for a living.

    But you can stop a car faster than abs with practise, and the harder you jump on it, the more violent its intervention can be, and therefore the slower you stop. As on a scale of 0-10, 10 locking up, 0 no braking at all. You are aiming for 9.99, abs does 8-10, 8-10 etc. So by getting it spot on, you'll stop quicker than the abs can.

    Just scares me a little when people jump in a car and just smash the brake. Espeically if they have no idea if the car has abs or not. People stop learning the skill of braking.

    But anyway...
  17. I tried to explain threshold braking to a friend of mine, it was like trying to explain heaven to a bear.

    She stared at me aghast when I told her I used to disable my ABS by pulling the fuse whenever there was snow on the ground.
  18. Yes, some people are just a lost cause. I mean if I was to do a track day, I'd turn it of, as it is annoying it cutting in all the time. We are digressing tho.

    I'm not sure if one of those advanced courses would be enough, as they are really only trying to hone skills rather than teach them (well the one I did anyway). I just don't feel you get enough goes at it. Some one on one stuff might be a good idea...
  19. If the rear wheel is locking you need to go back to basics.
    A motorcycle is not a car. I've known quite a few blokes who've done serious time in hospital because they failed to grasp that fact.
    A motorcycle has high centre of gravity and short wheelbase which produce a massive weight transfer effect under heavy braking.
    If you remember nothing else, the harder you want to stop, the less rear brake (combined with engine braking) you have available before the rear locks. It's counterintuitive but thats just the way it is.
    The upshot of this is that for gentle general purpose stopping, you can stomp on the rear brake fairly hard and nothing happens except you stop. However, squeeze the front hard (which is necessary to stop in a hurry) and the merest tickle of the brake pedal can bring the back unstuck.
    If you lock the front, you will know about it because it will tuck under you and you will be on your ear very quickly indeed.
  20. Wow scary.
    Al is right and you have to do your basics. Everyone does.
    If you are locking up the rear wheel, you are not setting yourself up before your hit the brakes. It's that simple. If you were, your bike and you would be more balanced. You would feel the wheel locking instead of just seeing the licorice strip behind you.
    Get your knees into the tank. Sit up and EYES up. I cannot stress the importance of keeping your eyes up.
    1. It will help you maintain your balance, and so the bike will be more balanced, more stable.
    2. You can be looking for a way to ride out of this situation you have yourself in. You will very rarely brake out of trouble.