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Practicing e-braking in the wet ... safely ?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by jekyll, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Never!

  2. Yes, once or twice. I don't think I'll be doing that again.

    0 vote(s)
  3. Yes, I have and probably will again.

    0 vote(s)
  4. Yes, regularly.

    0 vote(s)
  1. Hey all

    A few times when it's been wet I've done a practice e-brake or two.

    The first time I locked the front wheel, went down to a 45 degree angle before a bit of foot out + gas hooked everything back up. Since then I've had a few nice, successful stops and a few more nasty foot-out incidents, though none have ended in tears.

    I don't think I should be riding in conditions I'm not 100% comfortable emergency braking in. Thing is, I haven't practised enough because it's a bit scary-o when I overdo it.

    In the dry I can e-brake extremely well. I'm after some tips on how to master wet-weather emergency stops without putting myself at risk.

    I obviously need to take it a lot slower and very gradually increase the severity of braking until I find the limit - but is there anything else I should know? Any tips on practicing you can offer?

  2. imo, i use area's were i can walk/slow ride, the strip/area first checking for anything odd oil, gravel/mud etc.....then like you said start slow and build up the speed, and rememer never grab at the brakes always set then squeeze, will help alot with reduced lock ups and drops :)
  3. Get off the brakes when you lock up!
  4. Thankfully I do that already, or I'd probably be missing some teeth :)
  5. Oh, I thought it was a virtual braking test. :p

    Locking brakes? unheard of..................especially on a BMW
  6. no they have built in a stupid user feature called ABS
  7. With the reflexes of a stoned goat apparently. You can happily lock the front on a flat surface in a straight line without the front washing away..... unless you don't get off the brakes for ages. Sounds like you need to get off the brakes quicker when it locks up.

    Just trying to help.
  8. I tend to disagree..
    I believe we need to ride in EVERY condition we are capable of. 100% comfortablility comes with experience which You can only gain by being out there.
    In the wet, I tend to do most things earlier, slower and with less force.
    ( ie get ready to brake earlier.... make it smooth and progressive )

    My 2 bobs worth ... :wink:
    PS: I'm still learning too
  9. By the way, getting off the brakes if you lock it up only applies to the front wheel. If you lock up the back and it gets out of line, getting off the back brake can throw you off your bike. It's better to hold your back brake locked until you stop.
  10. I strongly agree 99.99% and then in the 0.01% I strongly disagree. ;)

    I have had the front wash out instantly once (out of >400 emergency stop practices - I'd do a couple each time I went home, in the backstreets near my house). Admittedly I was fatigued at the time and the road surface at that particular spot was a bit rough/greasy, but...

    The other >399 times, a front wheel lockup wasn't a threat at all. Just ease off the brake, reapply, no drama.
  11. Yeah, camber can be a biatch :)
  12. Why? :-k

    IMHO Bad advice. It's not going to slow you down if it's locked. And you have little (or no) control over where the rear wheel wants to go.
  13. The key wording there was 'if the rear tyre gets out of line'. If the rear tyre suddenly regains traction while not pointed in the direction of motion, it will more than likely result in a highside, and a highside will result in a bigger frowny face than a slightly increased stopping distance.

    If the back brake is still in line, by all means, release and reapply.
  14. +1 one of the first things I learned regarding emergency braking

  15. what i don't get is why would you let the back get that far out of line, ie hold the brake that long, as soon as you break traction release you release and reapply, basics of braking
  16. To the OP...You are doing the right thing...but...it sounds like you might be rushing it in an effort to master the technique - something that will quite easily bring even a seasoned rider down on his face. Yow!

    Take your time with this...work up to it slowly...get proficient and comfortable at one level of braking and then ramp it up a notch, until you get comfy at that next level, then continue.

    If you tackle it too eagerly, you'll face plant. eeek!

  17. Personally I don't think practicing e-braking in the wets will help you in real emergency situation. There are too many uncertainties at play, eg. oil on the road and most importantly luck. Remember, you're on 2 wheels so the way your bike behaves when you brake hard won't be as predictable as it would be as a car.

    IMO the safest way to ride in the wet is to be that super extra careful. Meaning slowing down much much earlier. Pay attention to the traffic and basically avoid putting yourself in a danger position. Choose a different route eg. avoid roads with tram tracks.
  18. In an emergency, I might need to be able to brake at maximum capacity. Even slightly suboptimal braking can make a considerable difference in impact speed, or see you involved in a collision when you could have avoided crashing altogether.

    Surely experience and practice has just as much bearing on wet weather braking as all the other aspects of riding a motorcycle?

    I agree everything after the first sentence though. Good advice. I do try to ride with exaggerated smoothness and caution in the wet.

    I think Raven summed it up for me. I just need to spend some time on it, gradually working up to the point of maximum braking, on the same road surface and speed. Just as with dry e-braking practice, but sneaking up on it more gradually.

    Then once I'm getting good at it, I can start adding detergent to the road to make it *really* challenging ... jk
  19. ...and there's a little discussion here: http://www.motorcops.com/police_training/police_training_braking.asp
  20. I've temporarily locked the rear wheel plenty of times, and usually release it as early as I can. I don't recall feeling unsettled by the tyre hooking back up with the road.

    I recently adjusted the rear brake lever so it's tucked well away below the peg, so it can only be squeezed by "pointing your toe" down. This has made it far easier to just slightly apply the rear, and made it far less anxious to lock up.

    Is a highside low risk on a 250? Does the risk increase mainly with your velocity, or on some dimension of the bike's handling or performance?

    I saw Kevin Carmichael pull a move on a Street Triple where he locks the rear at about 30 km/h and uses the skid to "back it in", turning about 90 degrees while travelling in a straight line, comes to a standstill and drives off. I'd like to be able to do that just for the sheer :jerk: value.

    I think practising that safely is a while off though ...