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Power question

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by CZ650, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. Hey all,

    Been lurking around here for ages, not a total noob,

    But I have a question for once. I’ve stopped riding a few months ago due to a career change I’d made, had to sell the bike and I was pretty disappointed with that because you couldn’t peel me off it. The missus says I have to get a new one because I’m not the same without it, and it’s just one of those few things that keep’s me sane. No petrol, grease, bikes or cars drives me a little mad after a bit...

    I’ve test rode a heap in the meantime to find a better bike (still on restrictions till Dec) and to give myself a feel for a more powerful bike. I’ve been trying to match them up specification wise (not taking into account how the power is delivered by different engines). I’m really keen on an SV650S, but obviously I can’t ride that for a bit. Now I probably can answer the question myself logically because it’s not a hard one, but I thought I’d see what others think about my situation, either wait till December and get the SV with rusty riding skills or buy something like a GS500 now and risk the remote chance of becoming bored of it but have the skills up (after the ordeal of offloading a 250, don’t want to go there again, I want a keeper)?

    Now this is where I may sound a little thick, but a BMW F650GS I’d rode fairly enthusiastically and a mates GS500 still both felt like they are lacking to me, I’m not a hoon that’s just how I felt, almost slightly shortchanged. But weight wise (on paper), the GS’s and the SV are very similar and the power (not taking in to account the 3 different engines and power delivery) is different between the GS’s and the SV, but not massively different (SV is 25-30hp more and 15-25Nm more). Or is that quite a considerable amount more and am I just missing something?

    Honestly I’m still getting the feel for power outputs on bikes with the little info I can find but obviously (and safely) I can’t find out for myself. I’m a pretty cautious person and I’d honestly rather ask a stupid question now than make a dumb mistake later, so don’t flame too hard. I’m sure the missus would prefer me intact on a GS500, but we both can’t go past the SV lol...

    Thanks heaps!
  2. I haven't ridden any of those bikes, but that's 50% more power and 30% more torque to the SV. That's a major difference, and will be immediately noticeable as it's in that critical range that is used on the street.

    I assume you're looking at the unrestricted SV?

    One other thing to consider - everyone with SV650's seems to love them. Yes, some upgrade again to supersports and litrebikes, but they don't seem desperate to change in the way that people coming off LAMs are.
  3. That is quite a difference.

    Yeah it was the unrestricted SV. I've gone over it in my head a lot and the idea of the LAMS one seem's slightly annoying (and a bad idea to have unrestricted), mainly because the older ones which are more affordable haven't got the luxury of a LAMS alternative.

    But yeah, if I sit on one in the showroom or out in the yard, it feels right and I can see it lasting long term for me. As odd as it sound's I'm not hugely sold on ever owning a supersport or litrebike!
  4. Not odd at all. Not everybody aspires to be Casey Stoner.

    Big sports tourers can be a lot of fun though. Wait until you've ridden something with real torque (more entertaining than outright top-end power IMHO, and a whole lot healthier for your licence) until you decide you don't want one :grin:.
  5. Just a few points.

    1. Becareful with the BMW F650, the new ones aren't actually a 650, they are a detuned 800.

    2. Someone more knowledgeable then me will explian why, but where in the rev range a bike makes it's power and torque is sometimes more important than how much it's making. Where the power/torque is delivered effects how a bike 'feels'. And realistically, for most of us, it's how we feel when we ride a bike that makes us want to ride it more (or less). My advice would be to ride the GS500 and the SV and buy the one that you prefer to ride.

    3. As silly as it may sound, a relatively high powered bike can be easier to ride than a relatively low powered bike. For example, I test rode an FZ1S (1000cc) and I found it an easier bike to ride than my sons FZ6N because I didn't have to work as hard.
  6. Big touring bikes have always lured me in after going pillion on a K1100, not hugely fast but it pulled! Wont forget that! But I keep telling myself to hang on and wait till I've got a few more years experience under my belt for that capacity.

    I am going to have to pick between the SV and GS, since I'm not getting a pay rise any time soon it will have to be the GS500 (not going to fork out for the LAMS SV) since I don't want to risk the legalities involved with riding a bike I'm not meant to!

    And every single time I've jumped on a bigger and better bike, its been an absolute walk in the park compared to what I started on...
  7. You need to be in power band of a bike to have power on a sports bike it is usually 5-6k rev
    there is a difference between power and torque.

    you cannot really tell what power and torque are until you experiance it.
  8. That,s why one has to actually ride the bikes, as often they will "feel" different, than what the stats suggest.
    Get the one that feels the best. If it's underpowered (which will disappoint you long term), then get a bike with more power. Capacity is irrelevant.

    As for getting some big honking sports-tourer, as alot of guys advocate, remember the weight.

    Oh, and just for the record a big sportsbike has plenty of torque. You do not have Togo hard and fast to appreciate the power they have. But of course, you may not want that style of bike.

    Take anew hornet or z1000 for a spin and see if the power is more suitable for you.
  9. I didn't suggest the OP actually gets a sports tourer. Just that he should try one before deciding to not want one :grin:.

    I do think it's interesting that a lot of older riders, whatever they may have owned in the past, end up with something in the big sports tourer mould. In my opinion, it's not because the big sports tourer is an old man's bike, but more because old men have spent a lot of time working out what's truly important in a bike and big sports tourers provide it.
  10. It could be that your body just doesn't fit on a sports bike anymore. Or is that just me?
  11. Well...erm... I know that I am headed that way, Pat - no quite there yet. Phew! :)
    Btw...I was addressing your post Pat, but my comment re tourers wasn't directed at you, mate. More to the others out there in bikeland that seem to think sportsbikes have no grunt and have to be ridden hard all the time. Sorry if it sounded like I was having a niggle at you personally, mate.

  12. Never thought you were :grin:.
  13. Power is simply the rate at which torque is being done. That's why you will nearly always get peak POWER at the redline however usually you will not be making peak torque due to a huge bunch of factors . The power (in hp) is determined by the torque multiplied by the RPM divided by 5252 (ie the engine is turning with a force of 400 newtons metres [ie a force of 400N with a pivot point 1 metre away from where the force is applied], at a rate of 15,000 times a minute). Hope this explains a bit.

    If you can, try and find a dynometer graph of each of the bikes. A flatter torque curve will ride much more differently than one which spikes up. This can give you a basic idea of how each would go if you can't ride them.
  14. So from what I gather with the SV650's their torque curve is pretty much consistently flat right across the rev range, so it's around 60Nm all the time. Meaning I would have to be pretty vigilant and cautious with the throttle at any speed for starters??? I could see this being a good thing long term but might take a little getting used to...

    The BMW single peaked 60Nm around 5.5k rpm which was fairly noticeable when I rode one, but pretty sedate under that like the GS500.

    I can see myself finding a GS500 to ride right now so I don't loose out on practice waiting 4 months lol...