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Power Commander Question

Discussion in 'Modifications and Projects' started by a-man, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. I was wondering if anyone can let me know what the benefits are of performance enhancers like Power Commanders.

    Are they worth adding to stock bikes or do they only really make a difference when added with other mods like an exhaust system.

    I have a stock K7 GSXR 750.
  2. A power commander remaps your engine electronics (you supply/download maps) so in theory you can get some gains with everything else being stock but the big gains are had with exhaust and air filter mods as well.

    A couple of dyno runs are required to set it all up properly but strictly speaking a PC install should give you something.
  3. I've been doing abit of research on the PCIII and FI processors in general ... while not for your bike ... heres some 2nd hand info that I've found along the way ... it is what the majority have said so should be correct but may not be if you know what I mean.

    1/ Production bikes are 90% there and usually tuned for emissions and economy.

    2/ If you've done mods then the production map should be below the 90% and the PCIII will get the full benifits thus maybe 120% of old power.

    3/ PCIII with Dyno tune will get near to 100% of capable.

    4/ More power = more fuel used ... as an example stock K8 M50 near 300kms on tank ... FI processor with exhaust, intake mods just over 200kms on tank ... thats a big hit !!!

    5/ PCIII requires HO2 sensor to be disabled on M50 ... this means no ECU fine tunning for the "Current" conditions ... but water temp ... air temp etc still work.

    6/ ADV ... more power ... better throttle control ... longer engine life if you done mods that lean out the production map.

    7/ DIS ... more fuel ... may technically make your bike illegal on road :roll: and therefore insurance problems :roll: :roll:

  4. Mate give Dynoverks a call in Boronia and speak to Dean. It will make a slight improvement on a standard bike, but with pipe and filter it will better again. The Dynojet dyno machine writes the map to the PC111 giving you correct air fuel ratio to give a smooth torque curve right through the rev range..
  5. Power commanders do NOT affect the standard ECU, they are an aftermarket piggyback fuel management system. Just trust me on this one people.

    If your bike is stock don't buy one you don't need it.

    If you modify your filter and or pipe, get a power run done at a dyno centre (usually about $50) and they will tell you if you require it. It's a lot of money to spend if you don't need it, as not all bikes do.

    So to explain it in a bit more detail.. your bike's ECU has been programmed to put the right amount of fuel through for a standard filter and pipe.. when you modify your bike, the standard ecu doesn't know any different and happily keeps putting through the same amount of fuel. The pc plugs into the wiring loom, no they are not universal btw - plugs are different) and it says what fuel to put through the bike. Downloaded maps at best are going to be about 90% as all bikes are different. The best thing you can do is have it custom mapped. Your bike shoud be running around 13:1 air fuel ratio.. without it mine starts at 17:1 (way too lean) and jumps around crazily. Top one is before it was mapped, the lower line is air fuel
    Second one is after a basic map was done, it is much smoother now I just haven't copied the sheet.

  6. tanyathecheeky, good to see the before and after Dyno graphs ... clearly shows whats going on ... how did you find the fuel usage before and after ?

    Did more power mean less throttle used, so you actually got more kms out of a tank?

  7. Tanya, thanks for that. I always thought even on a standard bike it would make a slight difference.. And as the lady says, trust her.. :wink:
  8. Also remember that a PC is *only* required where the bikes standard ECU cannot be reprogrammed or modified. PCIII's are popular due to their simplicity, wide range of published maps and technical understanding of tuners. They are not the be all and end all though.

    Some buy theirs from OS. Most local shops will do a PC and Dyno Tune deal that might be cheaper than doing that.

    I'd recommend Dave @ Dynobike. He seems to be getting some really good reports from people I know who've used him.
  9. I'd have to disagree with coments that a powercomander is a waste of time on a standard bike.
    A powercommander was the first thing I fitted and as I was thinking about getting a pipe later on I didn't bother with a dynotune just downloaded Dynojets map for a standard bike.
    I found the improvement to be noticable.
    Wether you think it's worth it is an individual call.
    When I fitted the pipe I used a map suplied by the pipe importer , who also runs a Dyno tunning shop.
    I found this map to be so good I havn't bothered with a dyno tune yet.
    I may do this later on though.
  10. It would make a difference on a standard bike.. but it's a lot of money for a little difference..

    Bike's tend to use more fuel afterwards. Some don't but most do. I didn't notice a huge difference.

    Serco can pre map a power commander like your pipe supplier did for you gzige Free of charge if told what the bike has when p/c is ordered.
    This is about 90% suitable, they still recommend the bike be dyno'd properly.

    Cejay is also correct, some bike's ECU's can be modified, problem is the percentage is small
  11. Yes they may still provide an improvement to a stock bike however
    whether the very minimal gains are worth forking out $550 retail for
    is your call.

    If you asked me, I'd say its not worth it. Gains on the stock bike was
    less than 3hp. None of my mates have bothered putting a unit into a
    stock bike.

    If anyone has gotten more gains, show the graph.

    You can buy units on-line from Australia for $440 or you can buy em
    on-line from USA for $260 odd.

    Why wouldnt you at a minimum invest in a K&N filter for example?
    They retail for $100 odd.

    I had PCIII installed less than 2mths ago.

    Max Power (No mods) = 151.18hp
    Full System, KN Filter & PCIII (Standard Map) = 155.85hp
    Full System, KN Filter, PCIII & Custom Map = 160.15hp

    Standard maps available for download are crap. To get best use &
    gains, you must get a map custom made for your bike, as shown above.
    Cost to get a custom map isent cheap tho.

    Alternatively, how about simply replacing ya front & rear sprockets for
    improved arsekicking acceleration. INHO, thats the cheapest best value
    for money performance improvement.

    Front sprocket $20-30 (-1 tooth)
    Rear sprocket $80-100 (+1 or +2)
  12. Sure!


    Though some specifics. The GSR600 has a detuned GSXR600K4 engine, shoehorned to comply with Euro3 emissions controls. So there was a bit to gain from fixing up the fuel mapping!

    The bike is bone stock.
  13. Bluplet, you be careful with that 92hp... :wink: :p

    With the mods to the 14 i gained an extra 9rwhp and an extra 6nm of torque.

    But for me it wasnt about the extra power, cause god knows it already has enough. It was about getting the the bike to run properly with the mods i had done. If it were stock, personally i wouldnt add a PC111..

    All bikes will differ remember as will all dynos give different results..
  14. You got peanuts for brains if you believe that :LOL:

    A dynotuner can manipulate runs to produce unrealistic bullshit


    Go to a reputable business who specialise in dyno tuning (Qld)
    & I bet your last dollar you wont see gains anywhere near 10hp.

    Do the research Bluman :roll:
  15. That is a realistic gain from the GSR as it has an emissions biased map from factory. By just removing the 02 sensor from my bike it has transformed it. The GSR is way down on power compared to the GSXR. It uses different cams and smaller throttle bodies to boost mid range. By sorting the fueling issues 10HP is possible.
  16. Maybe I should have qualified myself further & said that such
    gains is not attainable/realistic for any late model supersports
    bike; of which a-man has.
  17. Yeah, gains from a power commander on a standard bike will nor be large, most of the time. My current bike felt smoother and just nicer to ride, also the accelerator pump feature improved some of the snatchyness on and off the throttle.
    I believe the Suzuki can be tuned without a power commander. A mate of mine had his KR GSXR 750 tunned. He had a noticable improvement as his bike was very rich from the factory.
    All bikes will benefit differently from tunning, e.g. I gained 9.7 hp from a dynotune on a standard bike( previous bike ) This was not something magical the tuner had done, it was simply that my bike was down on power from the factory. After the tune it was making the horsepower the engineers had designed it to make, no more.
    I know dyno numbers need to be taken with a bit of salt, regardless whether it was 9.7 or 5 or 10 I could feel it and it was significant.
  18. a power commander on a stock bike just makes you feel cooler, and faster, and gives you an additional mod to place in your signature.
    its like a placebo.
  19. mickgonads@hotmail.com wrote:
    Form: Dynobike
    name: Michael
    Email: mickgonads@hotmail.com
    country: Aust
    message: In your experience is it possible to have 10+hp gains by installing a PCIII into a stock late model
    subject: Dynobike
    bmit: Send Email
    Ref #: 29368D0203

    Re: Dynobike #29368D0203

    From: dynobike (dedge@dynobike.com)
    Sent: Monday, 4 February 2008 10:42:08 AM
    To: mickgonads@hotmail.com

    It's possible, however in most case not likely.

    What you have to understand is that the unit is not about bolt on hp, it's there to tune
    and correct the air/fuel where it is either lean or rich.

    The end result in some cases means 10hp improvement, in most cases it mean less in
    terms of the out right number

    It's not about getting a big hp no. at max rev's. Lets face it how often are you up there
    anyway when you are it's less than a second and then your going for next gear.

    What's important is that any of these unit's ( ie, power com, DFMS, Dobeck etc) will give
    you better throttle response when you crack the throttle low down, much smoother ride
    at a steady throttle and better control and possibly even better fuel economy.

    Buyer beware of people selling a PCIII unit with the idea that you'll get X number of hp

    Hope this has answered your question.

  20. Thanks for all the tips and advice.

    Great to hear everyones opinions and experience!!