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Solved Power commander or ECU remap?

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by KharmaKazi, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. hey guys

    can anyone please explain a bit of this to me ?
    i fitted a new y-pipe "decat" to the 07 R1, since then there is a noticeable difference in how the bike is idling and also at low revs the bike isn't as responsive as before fitting the y-pipe, and on a cpl of occasions iv'e had to clutch it out of first as dropped power "dying" when taking off if i don't rev a bit higher if you know what i mean. it never used to do this ?
    i used to be able to take off from stopping at very low revs in first.

    the bike has GYTR slipons and K&N filter too.
    will be fitting smog block off plates too this weekend "hopefully if they finally arrive"

    my question is :

    i rang a dyno tuner last week and they say they can just get my current ecu unlocked and re-map it and dyno tune that.
    the reason i would prefer to do it this way is it will save me money on insurance. adding a power commander will cost me about an extra $140 a year to my insurance premium.
    and also the remap and dyno tune will cost $600 "also cheaper than buying the power commander and tune"

    now the money side of things isn't a major issue, but hey if it's cheaper and i get the same/similar performance, who wouldn't prefer to save the $$$
    i also think i read somewhere about loosing some rpms or functions with the bike or something with the power commander, but i can't seem to find what id'e read before about it ?

    sorry if these are stupid questions, but i'm not too technical with engines etc, and was hoping someone/s could please explain this to me a bit better before i decide what i'm going to go ahead with.

    on a final note i'm happy to pay the extra $$$ to gain performance and a smoother throttle response if the power commander is going to do this above an ECU remap and tune...

  2. A Power Commander is just an add-on unit that holds the injectors open for varying lengths of time at various engine speeds as determined by it's programming. In shot, it gives you extra fuel to make up for a lean mixture, and you can adjust how much extra and at what engine speed. A PC can only add more fuel, they don't make things leaner. The big advantage is that you can unplug it and take it with you, or remove it if you decide you don't need/want it. A re-mapped ECU will have to go back to the guys that have the specialized gear to put it back to stock, and if they stuffed up you can't tweak it yourself. If they REALLY stuffed up you're up for a new ECU or even a new engine.
    I have no idea about relative costs, but by the sound of the mods you've done you're running lean, so either option would be capable to sorting that out.
  3. Try posting the question up on a specific R1 forum. Might get more technical assistance.

    I think it also depends on what you want to do in future - I was told with a PC it's easier or possible to add a quickshifter (standard ecu does not have the connectors??? i'm going on hearsay and a bad memory here).

    The PC might also need some custom maps to get the best performance. If you're not technically inclined etc might be best to hand over to a specialist.
  4. Hands down Ecu reflash is 110% better then a power commander which olny does fuel.

    ecu reflash you can adjust everything not just fuel .
    You can adjust fuel , timing , throttle restrictions , secondary throttle body opening , speed limiter etc the list goes on.

    You can return it back to standard at anytime.

    I've had my gsxr reflashed ecu tuned on Dyno and it's the best bang for buck tuning available .

    I had mine done at Dynobike in Moorabbin Victoria.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. +1

    Power commander, as noted by others, is a piggyback device which 'tricks' the base map programmed to the ECU.
    A/F modules do a similar thing to 'trick' the lambda probe for < 4000 rpm open loop.

    The only way to eliminate the lambda and run closed loop permanently is to get an ECU reflash done with a custom map.
    As posted by Nick s1000rNick s1000r a good dyno tuner is key.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. It cost me 695 to have my gsxr flashed tuned by one of the best tuners the end result was well worth the expense .
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. #8 barry_mcki, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
    Not sure about the other "piggy back" ECU boxes, but the PC can reduce the fuel to the injectors (it has it's own injector wiring loom) so can lean out the map if required (hence the negative numbers in a PC Map).

    The ECU reflash has the advantage of not only fuel remapping, but almost every other parameter, especially timing. There are Timing Boxes that can be added to the PC, but more cost and more things that could go wrong. The PC can also be fitted with an AUTOTUNE module, this gives a true closed loop dynamic tune by inserting a wide band oxygen sensor into the exhaust to continually measure and change the tune to stay at the pre-programmed AFR (the AFR can be set at different values for different throttle openings and engine revs). However, this is another box to pay for and possible source of future gremlins.

    With the ECU reflash you are in the hands of the flash guru's, and unless you can program an ECU yourself, there is little you can do yourself. Luckily there are quite a few good reflash guru's around that this isn't really a problem. The PC allows you to change the fuel map yourself with free software, whether that is a good thing or not is debatable.
  8. Thanks for all the info guys, really appreciated (y)

    after the above advise i think i will go with the ECU remap and get it dyno tuned. maybe add a quick shifter later on, but that's no real concern for me really atm.
    iv'e had a bit of a read around the traps on dyno tuners locally and from what iv'e read these guys are supposed to be pretty good "i hope anyway"
    SuperBike Performance

    received my smog block off plates today too, so hopefully the fitting of them goes trouble free for me on the weekend...
  9. You can also send your ECU to Dynobike for a mail in flash tune. $475.00. It includes removing all restriction setting Fly by wire ratio to 1-1 full and ignition mapping adjustments to suit your mods.
  10. Cheers dedge

    already had the ecu re mapped and Dyno tuned, i'm booked in for them to have another look at it on saturday as it's still idling like crap.
    for the 3hp i gained i'm starting to think it wasn't worth going through all the hassle and $$$ spent fitting a mid pipe "decat" smog block off plates etc.
    ever since doing them mods it's pretty much run like crap...
  11. Something is wrong there mate, I've tuned lots of them. They idle nice, more responsive etc. Where did the Y pipe come from.
    There are 2 TPS sensors on that model bike, one on the throttle body and the other on the Fly by wire servo pully. It is possible that they are out of sync and need to be calibrated. Instructions are in the service manual. Also make sure you balance the throttle bodies, the guys at the shop are probably onto that.
    What did you do about the exhaust valve servo? Have you disconnected the 02 sensor?
    If you have played around with the idle mixtures through the dash set it back to stock
    It does sound like the mixtures are rich at idle
    Try removing 10-15% from idle table.
    Hope this helps
  12. hey dedge

    yep it was idling fine before i fitted the y-piece "de cat", got the Y from Bikebiz "awesome service btw" it a stainless Acropovic Y
    not sure about the exhaust valve servo ? i'm guessing it's all still there complete.
    the o2 sensor was unplugged and error code removed. i ended up removing the actual o2 sensor from the Y and used a stainless plug in its place that came with the pipe.
    i haven't played around with any mixtures or anything really as i don't know what i'm doing, i'll leave that to the tuners ;)

    i have changed the plugs as i thought that may have been the problem and didn't want to waste the dyno tuners time if it was as simple as that.

    thanks heaps for the advise, i will ask the guys tomorrow about what you have mentioned above.
  13. Ok so lots of what has been said above is true, and some a lil misguided. Yes for sure, flashing the ecu is great for unlocking fly by wire, closed loop areas, moving where the variable stacks lift and drop (where applicable) etc etc. for fuelling it's not quite the same. Now I'm not saying that flashing the ecu won't make the bike better, it may do, and it also may not. I've remapped plenty of flashed ecu's that weren't so good.

    The advantage of the power commander (or bazzaz) is that each and every point on the map is measured for air/fuel ratios and corrected where needed. The PC also adds AND REMOVES fuel, and you'll find most jap sports bikes with pipes etc on them tend to run rich down low.

    When I was working with factory Yamaha SS teams, they ran YEC fully programable ecu's, and we used that for various things, for fuelling we still used Pc's. It would take 2 days on the Dyno to map an ecu in the same way a PC is mapped. And for the most part flashing an ecu is like downloading a map on to a PC. I would never do that either.

    Again, definitely not saying not to flash an ecu. What I am saying, is that for fuelling, having it custom mapped on the Dyno with a PC will get better results than flashing.

    Hope this helps
    • Informative Informative x 2
  14. Interesting.....
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Cheers for the info Birdman
    I'll keep it in mind for later on down the track maybe.

    The bike ended up back at the dyno's
    For 4 days.
    They checked a few things and also changed fuel mixture at idle, and ballanced the throttle bodies.
    Now after warmup the bike is idling nice again.
    The guys from Superbike performance were great too...
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Well there's the other thing too. Now I'm not 100% on what they did fuel wise as far as the mapping goes but to do ah there near good a job as mapping a PC with tuning link, you'd need around that time to do it. vs a couple of hours of your bike getting flogged on the Dyno using a PC. But I garuntee the 4 days wasn't for mapping coz you'd be paying $1500 + for that sorta time being spent in labour