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QLD Police "Estimated" my speed. (no radar)

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Matt GO!!!!!!!, May 25, 2011.

  1. Hello just recently I have copped a fine for doing an "estimated speed" of 100. in a 70 zone.

    It was a "guess" with no speed cameras involved. I'll start from the beginning. I am planning to contest and have mailed out the ticket to the Department of Transport and Justice ? and am awaiting a mail back from them.

    I was on my way to work after going thru a Mc Donald's drive thru as I was not in a mood to make my own breakfast. I was 1/2 way thru my journey when I hit a T intersection normally I go straight ahead as a short cut but this time I took the slightly longer way. My girlfriend had been grieving me sending me nasty messages the night before by SMS and a couple in the in the morning just for good measure. I was therefore a bit more "spirited" then usual.

    I took the long way around and was soon going slightly downhill to a left hand merge onto a main road . 70kmh zone. I had went thru the service station to shortcut this merger. I then had to merge anyway and as there was traffic coming along I had to give it some to merge and be in front of them. I looked ahead, down the road, scanning the horizon for a brief few seconds. Then looked back at the lane I was merging into and opened it up. FOR SOME REASON, I was fixated on the opposing lane of traffic it was bumper to bumper gridlock I thought, " Suckers ", and let the bike rev out to about 8 / 9 thousand in first. (2005 Yamaha R6 redlines alot higher than that.) I loved the beautiful sound of my aftermarket exhaust, I'm sure my bright blue Yammy was a spectacle for those in gridlock on the other lane. I kicked up a gear and gave it some more going approx 70 / 80 kmh, I was half tucked and loved the sensation, being free from that biatch of a girlfriend finally I looked forward.....

    There was about 5-6 people everywhere, I panicked, two walked onto the road screaming hands raised. The adreneline kicks in. They were only 50 metres ahead and closing. I applied the brakes, pegged it down a gear in a frantic effort held the clutch in and held the brakes and applied more pressure, I released them slightly fearing a lockup. The men in yellow vests and blue clothing were shouting "STOP STOP !! " I was about 5 metres off the two police officers and I finally had came to a halt. "It's HIM the one in the Rossi helmet!! " " He went past yesterday !! "
    This doesn't look good the please men when you can't stop quick enough. One of them yelled " Turn it off right now ! Turn it off ", I held back a laugh at the unnecessary panic, I have been riding since 17 everyday for the past 4 years, I am not cocky, just confident. I turned off my R6. Finally the world had slowed down just a little. It was not because of my speed, but due to my fixation of the gridlock on the other side of the road, that had gotten me into this mess. I pushed my R6 whilst standing on it up the steep driveway of the Salvation Army carpark, a place for the less fortunate and those in need. I couldn't push it up, i'm quite weak and a runt. I hopped off and used every last drop of adrenaline to push my r6 up the drive.
    It was quite a spectacle. two police cars, one being a highway patrol, and 5-6 officers arms folded, protecting and serving the people.

    I'm never good with police, I get nervous, they ARE the law after all.
    One police officer dealt with me.
    " Do you know what speed you were doing ? "
    I replied " It FELT like 90". I didn't once look at my speedo, I was too busy observing gridlock, knowing that ahead 2 lanes of nothingness and a crest, and behind me cars that I had to merge in front of.
    I said that my girlfriend had been giving me shit and so I was a bit moody. I did raise my voice at him and was threatened to " be put in the watch house ". He was bluffing, a good bluff though so I shut my trap and did the " Yes, sir " routine. I then explained I can't wait to do track days and with my new job it wouldn't be long until I was among gods on QLD raceway. He said that went thru a relationship with a woman and was divorced one day. I said that women are annoying and that whats the point ? He talked about one of the officers there takes his Hayabusa to the track.

    Finally after enough niceties and bonding the offense. He said "We estimated with the help of a plain clothes police-officer, and the boys here, (Who have been doing this for 25 years) that you were doing 100 kilometres an hour. ". ( Not 99, not 101 , not 120, not 80 . but 100 kmh GUESS without a speed gun or radar device. NOTHING )

    I was flabbergasted and interrupted him saying "How I don't understand."
    He told me not to interrupt he was getting angry again. He talked about how it was an estimate then WEIRDLY, he payed extra attention and I believe he talked twice about how I could take it to court and fight it. BUT the "Magistrate" knows these officers and will probably side with their 25yrs experience ( of guessing speed. ? **** me, 25 years of service in the force and they didn't even give you a speed gun ?!?! ")..

    I took the ticket and away I went. $333 and 6 demerit points weight on my shoulders.

    I have already completed and mailed the fine away. I will contest this on court, representing myself. I don't believe a human being can pin point the speed of a motor vehicle. The policeman stated it was an "estimate". I don't believe in guess work, I am German, I want FACT.

    You can't guess someone took cocaine because they have white powder under their nose it could be a delicious cake. You can't guess someone was murdered and lock them away. You simply can't.

    Has ANYONE ever had their speed GUESSED by police officers?

    Do I have a case to stand on in that there is no evidence of my speed only guesswork?

    This is why I am taking up track days, so sick of this bullshit.

    I do have a rap sheet, traffic record NOT criminal.

    91 in a 60 zone. (Love the redline / upper echelons of a Honda CBR250R in first gear.) I was rushing to help my mum paint her house. I'll cop that.

    72? in a 60 zone. This one is suspicious. It was my first ever fine. I was going thru a closed construction area at approx 10kmh over. It was a empty Saturday night, I was out late after ice skating. I had a car for approx 2 kilometres tailgating me with bright lights beaming into my mirrors dazzling me. This was in my first 3-4 months of riding. I panicked and created a safety gap by accelerating. I did this and was greeted by some flashing blue and red lights and a siren. He said I should " Pull over if I am ever being "tail-gated"." I replied" I panicked because as you can see on my licence I'm a new rider". I copped the fine anyway. Not happy.

    Riding a vehicle in a manner that causes unnecessary smoke and noise. No joke. It was a Fri night in the city, I had a drunk audience in the form of pedestrians and a pub. I let a long passionate 30 second burnout on my old Cibby 250. I had to perform for my audience. I did and my German luck was greeted with blue and red lights. I will cop this one. HOWEVER, and this is funny " We can sue you for damaging the road", is what the younger, male officer told me. I almost burst out in tears. A 15 ton + Mack Truck does more damage than extra rubber and grip I provide the people champ. Not that I said that.

    80? in a 60 zone + going over double white lines and almost "dangerous + reckless driving". I'll keep it short. MT Cootha Lookout, did a lap, had an Indian driver doing 40 in a 50 zone. Got MAD, rode around them over double white lines and towards an oncoming undercover Volkswagen Golf GTI Police car. Purely unlucky.
  2. As far as I know in Vic the court recognises them as expert witnesses and accepts their expert estimate of your speed. Suspect its the same up there.
  3. no hope mate as you said there a law unto themselves rap sheet wont be readout untill after your found guilty
  4. Yes I've heard of the estimate a fair bit. Sounds like you've incriminated yourself already by saying it 'felt' like 90. Personally with your driving experience, the chance of the magistrate taking your side of the '25 years+ police experience' bs, is low.. young guy on a screaming sportsbike with previous offences? Good luck. I'd suggest talking to a lawyer about your options, because police estimates are used in court regularly. Sitting on side of the road with a radar gun all day will apparently make them experts at accurately guessing speeds.

    Sounds right, but how hard would it be to test this theory out? Not very! Cars go past cop at various speeds and they have to estimate the speed without the gun. Never heard of any such tests though.
  5. You shouldn't have said "It felt like 90." You're ****ed. Should have said 68 max, and nothing more.
  6. Where'd you get a cbr250r that does 90 in first?
  7. 100kmp/h is 27.8m per second. Telegraph pole are between 15 and 20m apart. And there are a few other things on the road to gauge speed. Plus when your use to looking for it you get to know.
    Best not to say anything when they ask.
    Dunno, it's a toss of the coin and your coin might have two tails when your backing heads.
    If you had a clean sheet you might have stood a chance. Or weren't on a bike.

  8. Quoted for truth, sorry mate but you admitted speeding. Next time keep mum, much easier to go to court and protest your innocence if you haven't admitted committing an offence.
  9. Almost almost 90. I miss that bike. about 80 - 83 if you rev the tits off it then I remember upshifting to second, only to see a cop pointing a speed gun at me. 1989 Honda cbr250r. Cant remember which MC (model designation).

    Your right... I should of shut up and didn't say the it felt like 90.

    I am thinking I push for doing 90 or 88 / 85 as a lesser charge.

    I have been told you can not say anything and chant " I would have to talk to my lawyer." and keep it at that.
  10. Nah mate you just say I dunno mate I was looking at what you guys were doing.
    Or I was watching the traffic. don't aggravate them.
    Cops aren't dumb. Their just carnts with no sense of humor.
  11. yep that's factory. maybe 90's a bit much but it'll pull 80 if you strangle it

    250RR is MC22
  12. Also a topic I forgot to mention.

    I can appeal this to the "ombudsman" If I don't like the result.

    Will the court case cost me money even though I am representing myself? Kind of overlooked that one.
  13. I don't know about this. Perhaps one of the legally minded members can comment on this, but if you say "I dunno" it's not much better than admitting you were speeding. If you don't know how fast you were going, how do you know you weren't speeding?
  14. 90 in a 70 is pretty obvious. Specially as the op said he opened it up to hear the pipes. Think speeding was a given. By how much was the play. If the cops ok and thinks you are then he will just do the 3 points and $180 or how ever much it is at the lower down there.
    As I said they are not dumb.
  15. ](*,)

    Do not go to court.. The magistrate will almost certainly INCREASE your fine.
  16. Thanks man that helped me a lot, really positive ideas.
  17. Forget lesser charge, never admit anything. You could have been doing 200km/h, the right answer would still be 70km/h.............saying I dont know wouldnt cut it as well because they will guesstimate a speed and you really cant argue against it because youve already said "I dont know".

    If they are intent in charging you then come straight out with "what processes should I go through to contest this?", ask them if theyve got a camera, and do some half harsed B/S about the number of telegraph poles and the line marking as well as your speedo not indicating the speed they are trying to ping you.

    Ask for their details, name, etc as well as looking at the time and jotting everything down in a paper right in front of them.........basically shows your intent in fighting it as well as your preparedness.

    Finally, BE COURTEOUS!
  18. What's shocking about this is that you would have passed and watched hundreds who knew the cops had an operation up ahead and not one gave you a flash. What happened to the mutual fvck the police attitude?
  19. All of that just gives them the heads up that they may be seeing you in court.mthey will be very thorough and make sure that they have dotted all i's and crossed al t's. The best thing to do is to say very little. Remain courteous and maybe a little humble, and they may not think twice and just do the minimum notes. Then when they get your election to contest, they will be scratching their heads to recall the incident.

    Don't make yourself memorable. It won't help.

  20. As above, I wouldn't say "I dunno" because it shows carelessness. Best is to not say anything except comply when they ask for your licence and then ask whether or not you are free to go.