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VIC Police Conduct

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by Chef, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. #1 Chef, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2015
    The time is fast approaching when the 'force' come out in force and make their force felt.

    Sure they're just doing their job, but it's how they do it that really matters, and they have to do it by the book or they're breaking a code they're sworn to uphold. Each officer is sworn into service under a higher authority (usually God) and that is the moment they transform from a human being into an officer of the law. Effectively meaning they hold a higher station in life above the civilians they hold power over.

    I haven't been able to place the Victorian Police Oath as yet. It doesn't appear online but there are plenty of other examples to choose from if you want to see for yourself.

    How serious is the oath they take?
    You can see for yourself here...
    AM - Take two: bungled oath for police recruits
    The World Today - Police procedure casts doubt on convictions 05/10/2011

    Why is the Oath a person takes when joining the Victorian Police Force so important to us?
    Because it means they now have a sworn duty to uphold a code of ethics and a code of conduct. They are now placed in a position of power and authority where they cannot let their personal opinions or prejudges influence their attitude, behaviour or decisions.

    91df5d06.

    The right to be a Victorian Police officer means they must act IMPARTIALLY, with INTEGRITY and provide a service of EXCELLENCE.

    These are not just words, these are values they are sworn to.

    IMPARTIALLY:
    Impartiality is a principle of justice holding that decisions should be based on objective criteria, rather than on the basis of bias, prejudice, or preferring the benefit to one person over another for improper reasons.


    INTEGRITY:
    Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy, in that it regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.


    EXCELLENCE:
    Excellence is a talent or quality which is unusually good and so surpasses ordinary standards. It is also an aimed for standard of performance.



    So what does this mean to us?

    To some of us absolutely nothing, they're just words and something else to argue about online. That's ok, I haven't taken any such oath as the one above. However, as I said at the top of the post, the time is fast approaching with the GP just around the corner and the riding season about to begin, there will be plenty of interactions between riders and the 'force'.

    Let’s cut to the chase (pun intended)
    Impartial means without prejudice. So if you feel like you’ve been prejudged you probably have. If an officer in the execution of his/her duties says ‘it’s people like you’ or ‘I’m sick of scraping you guys off the road’ or any other biased comments towards you, there is actually grounds to take the matter further. They have no right to speak to you in that manner. EVER. To do so is to break their oath.

    So what do you do?
    In the short term NOTHING. Do absolutely nothing that will justify to them that they are in the right, because they’re not. You can however ask questions for the sake of clarity. You can ask ‘what do mean by people like me?’ or if you want to be cheeky ‘when did you scrape me off the road?’

    There is no doubt people who will want to post in here about the so called ‘attitude test’, if you don’t know what it is just ask. The short version is if you give an officer ‘attitude’ he/she will write you a ticket they wouldn’t have normally.

    Well here’s the fucking thing, Cops can fail the attitude test as well. And if a copper is giving you attitude you can bet he’s already made his mind up about giving you a ticket, so you have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

    On that ticket is going to be the officers name and badge number as well as the time they spoke to you and the location it took place. *They are the details you will need to lay a complaint*
    In his vehicle will be a recording of your interaction with the officer which will act as evidence. If the officer did not speak to you or act IMPARTIALLY then you have a case to take the matter further. If he fucks with you fuck him back. Don't worry about whether it will give him a bad perception about riders, that's the point, he's already got one!!! Maybe a little attitude adjustment from his Superior will set him straight.


    How to do it.
    There's two levels where the matter can be taken further. The one that covers this topic is here... Victoria Police - Compliments and Complaints

    If you file a complaint it is vitally important to make sure you include the following...



    *Request a written response including the outcome of your complaint*




    If enough riders complain about their treatment for being mistreated as riders then it goes to the next level... http://www.opi.vic.gov.au/

    ...and then the fun really begins ;)


    e7f78db5.

    Oh one more thing, learn your rights and use them...

    http://www.activistrights.org.au/cb_pages/police_powers_details.php


     
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  2. 'angon here ol boy, aren't you victorianese in danger of being shot by said pleece farce simply because you breathe??
    kinda suggests to me one should just shut up and bend over.....
     
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  3. Thanks chef for bringing this to light.

    I wish i had known my rights several times in the past now. I would have done things a lot differently and my life would probably be a lot different.

    these days i just try to avoid any sort of interaction with the powers that be.
     
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  4. #6 Chef, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2015
    You're a good man lukey, but i see I'm going to have to teach you how to copy/paste :p


    Me too brother. The fuckers bring me out in a rash.
     
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  5. "I swear by Almighty God" - well that's the problem right there - swearing by a fictional character....
     
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  6. Don't be a complete tool or derail the thread with your own prejudices. It's not big and it's not smart.

    A lot of time, research and effort goes into these threads so it might benefit you or someone else. Show some respect.

    The whole law system is based on there being a higher authority than people, meaning those that are in it are NOT answerable to themselves. So leave your theological shit for the other threads. Thanks.
     
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  7. This was unnecessary in a politics and the law thread, if you want to go off on this tangent please do so in off topic. I will not tolerate a thread derail kappish?
     
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  8. Six months of speaking to people, Two weeks research, One week deciding when is the best time to post, Two hours collecting information and posting. All so riders may know and understand their rights under the LAW.

    If people have an issue with the word God being used in the LAW or the context of the law, then they will need to take it up with the law.

    I made it completely clear from the outset that they DO NOT take their oath lightly. Yet the fools who fail to fathom the protection it brings them do.

    Yep, you are your own worst enemies. Nobody can fuck you harder than you're fucking yourselves.

    Want to impress me with your outstanding reasoning, logic and intellect? Go and fucking get some.
     
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  9. Chef, Can I ask what you are trying to achieve in this thread, just flesh it out a bit can you?

    That riders know their rights and obligations under the law, that is a worthwhile objective. Making Police & riders more aware of Police responsibilities under their oath also a good move.

    I am a little concerned over a scattergun approach to complaints to the Office of Police Integrity. Any complaints should be based on specific incidents and fully backed by facts, timetables and Police badge numbers. So a template of information you need to gather should be produced. I assume you are aiming at the being pulled over to be lectured at recent examples?
     
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  10. Yep

    Yep yep.

    Hmmmmm nope, no scattergun approach. However it's not up to me to tell riders if their rights to fair treatment have been breached, that's entirely up to them. I know the thread's got a lot of information in it to consider in one go, but it's up to riders to take it all in. There is no skipping to the bottom or cherry picking information out of this one, that would be counter productive.

    Your points are covered in the post but I'll answer them specifically again here. I'm happy to provide clarity where possible, but some questions will be outside my pay grade and may need a lawyer to answer them.

    The office of police integrity is NOT TO be engaged by riders.

    They're focus is on SERIOUS misconduct, or CORRUPTION by police, so one thing at a time.
    IF a pattern of behaviour can be adequately demonstrated through individual complaints only then will there be a legitimate reason for going to the OPI, but that will need to be left to a group with professional representation. That's something we'll take care of when the time comes.

    Your second point, which is absolutely critical to riders to understand is covered here...

    IF a ticket is issued then the rider has everything on the ticket they need to fill out the form provided in the link. IF a ticket is not issued but they still feel like there is a breach of the 'Code of Ethics' then they will need to request and make a note of the information required themselves. Absolutely important riders familiarise themselves with this form and the processes BEFORE they're engaged by Vicpol.

    Your third and final point.
    The template is here...
    http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content.asp?Document_ID=11933
    Riders need to familiarise themselves with it. Just can't stress that enough.

    It's there for a reason, we need to use it.
     
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  11. Ok so what is cause for complaint? I am not saying there are not causes just would like some discussion on what is considered just cause.
     
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  12. Chef, a good and informative thread to create. Some good information given. I too echo cjvfr's points and feel you have addressed their concerns in your reponse. It is important for people to be aware of their rights. You would expect a police officer to already be aware of their's, so the same should be available to the public for fairness.

    A consequence could be that as both groups become aware of the increase in knowledge on the publics side, one would expect that the level of professionalism would increase and mutual respect could have a better chance of developing - in a perfect world. We all know that some people woukd still resent getting a ticket no matter the manner in which it is presented, and in the same vain, we all know that some people in authority may misuse their powers.

    So, a good thread and something to hope for. I would only ask; in your last reply you linked to the complaints - compliments page, would people consider that if they had a good experience, that they use it in a positive way? Thereby being proactive in ensuring the officers are made aware of the reaction to positive ineractions?

    Cheers.
     
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  13. #15 Chef, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2015
    Me too. I want exactly the same thing.

    A friend of mine was riding through the back of Kinglake at a little bit over the speed limit. He was pinged by the local rozzer. The cop said to him, "You and your kind isn't welcome here".

    Was he treated impartially? Discuss.

    I'm happy to run with that, but make no mistake I'm not on their side. This thread is to address the imbalance not to blow smoke up police bottoms.

    I haven't even begun to address 'random' stops yet.
     
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  14. Based on your points, I would say not. This is looking at interactions from a totally different angle. People comment on police being impersonal, robotic, slow in the way they are spoken to. This would be in reponse to publics reactions to how things are said to them. Feedback to the officer would tell them to say little outside of things relative to the stop. This officer obviously has not applied this technique.

    Talking about mutual respect though, if we complain about the lack respect from police, if people want to show that they are the better person and worthy of respect they may want to consider starting to review the way they refer to police in the foru. Terms such as pigs, c*%#s etc, show that they are angry but does not infer the desire to work on the establishment of respect. If people here lead the way, then the finger can't be pointed that it is a two way street.

    Cheers.
     
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  15. Didn't get that feeling at all. But if we are expecting them to act with integrity and fairness, then it is a bit one sided if we only use the page for complaints. If some one is doing a good job and never gets a notification of it from the public, then how are they encouraged to continue in that vain. Are they doing something wrong?

    If we are talking about imbalalce then would we not want to ensure that balance is given in all areas?

    Cheers.
     
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  16. I am not sure if you can do much about individual random stops. Police have the catch all legislated right to do random license checks, breath tests, and roadworthy checks. At what point can you say that random stops of motorcyclists becomes harassment of a class of road user? I am just playing Devil's advocate here Chef I do believe that it has happened that the Police have crossed over to harassment at times but how would we prove such an allegation?
     
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  17. #19 Chef, Oct 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2015
    You leave that to me old son, that's not what this thread is about eh ;)

    Don't play us for fools Day, there are three key words the police are to conduct their duties with and I gave the definition of each. Go back and look at excellence and integrity.

    If the police need to be back slapped to do their job they are sworn to then justice has gone to hell in a handbasket. I gave you your concession but don't push your luck.

    No prizes here mate, sorry. You know full well my definition of pig....

    A copper will get you for something, a pig will get you for anything.

    Now apply the code of ethics and the picture becomes clearer. An officer going about his role as a role model and with integrity will get the respect they deserve or the law breaker is a muppet. BUT, there are people who hold the office of power over people and use it against them unethically. They are quite rightly spoken of and referred to in derogatory terms. They are sworn to perform their duties at a higher level of integrity than the general population is held to. If they cannot or will not do that then they have no right to ask for respect nor demand it. Because they simply have not earned it. Taking an empty oath is not enough to hold a badge or a gun to someone's head.
     
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  18. I think the key word is "engagement" Chef no-one likes to be preached at, even public servants. If you are going to start a dialog with the Police and their political masters about their priorities then it needs to be a balanced one. :)
     
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