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PI - corners/gear recommendations?

Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by urbansloth, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Hi all,

    2 part post:-

    1) I have very limited track day experience (count them on one hand), but on my last one I was told by a rider I hold in very high esteem that a tip to get quicker *safely* is to do your gears for each corner the same as the quick blokes, and then as you get quicker the revs naturally come up and your times go down - and you don't have to worry about changing the way you ride the track. You won't have maximum pull if you're riding a gear out from low, but it's not the idea to gain the time from the corner exits, but rather slowly getting entry speed up as you get comfortable, and then exit speeds will follow. At least that's the theory.

    This worked great for me - but in general, good strategy or bad?

    2) Now I face my next track day, I can't quite recall what those corners/gears were! I think it was:

    T1: Down 2 to 4th, tip in, gas
    T2 (Southern Loop?): Down to 3rd, then 4th before T3
    T4 (Honda?): Down 2 to 2nd, then 3rd before and through T5
    T6 (Siberia?): Down to 2nd, 3rd after the corner, before T7
    T8 (Hayshed?): Click 4th then tip in and on the gas
    T9 (Lukey Heights?): Down to 3rd
    T10 (MG?): Down to 2nd
    T11: Short shift to 3rd, then 4th after the corner
    T12: Short shift to 5th for the corner, tip in then on the gas
    .......into 6th down the straight.....

    Does that sound about right...? If it matters, I'll be on a gixxer 750, and last time I was there I was on one of the school bikes (gixxer 600's).

    Any help appreciated!

  2. There are many ways to skin a cat.

    It is true though, it's no use running a corner over and over in the same gear that has you right up in the revs while your corner speed is too slow. It'll hold you back, too much engine braking on the way in, and you won't have the revs available to go quicker each time around. If there's a gear selection that is doing that to you, click it up one and then concentrate on getting mid corner so good you're not lugging it out on the exit. Then concentrate on your exit. Then concentrate on your braking. Then brake so late you're messing up mid-corner. Then concentrate on mid corner. Rinse lather repeat. You won't run out of things to work on, but corner speed is a good start.

    But I doubt there is a "correct" gear for any corner between different bikes and riders. What gearing? A fresher bike might be able to pull the taller gear. And so on.
  3. Looks okay for a 750, but it also depends on the gearing. There's a few variations I'd suggest trying:

    Between 4 (Honda) and 6 (Siberia) you may be able to hold 2nd and over-rev it, which saves time over changing gears. Depends on the gearing though...

    Try holding 3rd through Turn 10 (MG). It can make the entry into Turn 11 less "busy" on a street-shift pattern bike. Depends on the gearing and what the engine drive is like. You spend so much time changing direction in this area that you generally don't miss the acceleration and it makes entry into T11 more stable. Worth a try, and it also makes the entry into Turn 10 a bit faster. It's one of those six-of-one, half-dozen-the-other, sorts of scenarios.

    You should have enough revs/gearing on the 750 to hold 4th through Turn 10. This allows for stronger drive up the slope out of the turn, and be able to click 5th just as you crest.

    There's no hard and fast rules though, and the above are just suggestions wholly dependent upon the rider and bike. I don't even do all of the above myself depending on which bike I'm on. Just give them a try though.
  4. All gearing is standard - it's a stock K7.

    I like your idea of MG in 3rd, I will try that - I'm not sure how my gixxer will pull from there but I know I was screwing my track position badly between 10 and 11 trying to haul it up, short shift and then tip in again (yes I'm a retard), so overall it might be a win. My only concern is T10 is where I binned it last time - trying 3rd might encourage me to take it quicker than I should! Although that being said, I did bin it because I gave it too much on the exit while leant over and spun out the back...maybe having less on tap lower in 3rd could be better for me...? :-k

    Re: between Honda and Siberia, I was holding on to 2nd during my sighting/warm up laps, but found myself getting blitzed by everyone else (even in the medium group :oops:) and 3rd helped there. But could the school bikes be geared shorter or something?

    Does anyone know what they've done to them, and what differences I could expect against my 7-fiddy..? I haven't really had a chance to use it in anger yet.. :)
  5. ok, my gearing is as follows for a slow (2:00) lap on a R1 with 150hp@wheel and 16/45 gearing (stock = 17/45) on a 190/55 rear tyre:

    Turn 1 = 4th
    Turn 2 = 3rd
    Turn 3 = 4th
    Turn 4 = 2nd
    Turn 5 = meh not a turn in my books, but it's about where i grab 3rd for Siberia
    Turn 6 = 3rd
    Turn 7 = 4th
    Turn 8 = stay in 4th
    Turn 9 = stay in 4th
    Turn 10 = What FLUX said, 3rd, makes for less busyness on the direction change into 11.
    Turn 11 = see above
    Turn 12 = 4th

    This works for me, but it's on a thousand, and i'm slow :)
  6. Cheers Sheppo, this is what I'm after. FWIW, I'm even slower, was doing about 2:05 - 2:08 I think!

    Interested to see you take Siberia in 3rd - is that common? I def like second there, would it be because I'm that bit slower, or the extra pull of the thou? I reckon I'd lose a lot of time trying to come out of there up the hill in 3rd - maybe I'll give that a try too.
  7. Nah, stick with 2nd through Siberia. You can use 3rd, but you'll lose a lot of drive coming out of it as you suggest. I haven't been on a standard-ish bike yet than 2nd isn't best for Siberia. All that changes is how soon you need to upshift after the apex.

    As for Honda to Siberia, it depends on the bike as well. A tall geared liter bike can hold 2nd between the two. As I said, go with what works, and if 3rd is needed for your bike, then use it. Some bikes will only do 130kph in 2nd, while others will do 180 at the limiter, just as an idea of the range of gearing/bike differences, and just why it's so hard to exactly state what's a good gear.
  8. Are you back on the racetrack these days Stew?
  9. i only use 3rd thru Siberia as in 2nd the bike is too much of a handfull on the uphill exit and will lift the front off the ground too easily if i'm not 100% spot on with throttle control. 3rd is simply me being lazy and making life easier.

    2nd works well between T4 and T6 as i can wind it out to the limiter, but i click 3rd before i change direction setting up for T6, for the above reasons. if you're going to use 2nd thru Siberia, try and rev it (2nd) out between T4 and T6. this will simplify things.

    on a 750 you will struggle to pull 3rd out of Siberia, even with a -1 on the front sprocket. a mate i ride with has a k8 and he NEEDS to use 2nd gear. i guess you'll be in the same boat.

    on a lightly modified thousand, the additional grunt can allow lazyness with the gears for minimal time loss at the pace we ride at. hence by gear selection.
  10. I'm the same, but third through Siberia. I love the feeling of pulling out of there on a wave of torque after being nice and settled through the corner.

    But I'm not too quick! :LOL:
  11. What are you on Morbo..? A thou? Standard gearing or modified?

    Gotta say, Siberia is my favourite corner - especially when you can follow it up by nailing that kink left to stay on the left hand line, and then nail that turn in point on Hayshed that lets you just stay on the gas the whole way through it.... :D :D :D :D
  12. Hi All
    Here is my 2 bobs worth
    T1: Down 2 to 4th,
    T2 (Southern Loop?): Down to 3rd, hard on the gas after second apex then up the 5th before T3
    T4 Honda Down 3 to 2nd, then up 1 to 3rd just before tipping in to Siberia
    Then accelerate 3rd 4th and up to 5th for the hayshed all the way to Luckey Heights and back to Fourth before the apex.
    T10 MG Down to 2nd
    T11: Short shift to 3rd, then 4th after straightening up Hold fourth up near redline for turn twelve backing of a touch to get the bike to turn in, (potentual puckering moment :))
    5th near the ripple strip on the outside of twelve then 6th under the Bridge down the straight.
    This doesn't change with any of the gearing I use, it just changes the exit speed of the slower corners.
    That's on a ZX10R but my old ZXR750 was not that much different.

  13. zxrno1 - do u shift into 5th for T3 before or after the "drop off" between T2 and T3?
  14. If I have a good run out of Southern I hit 5th just after the drop off when the front wheel is solid in the ground, and any head shaking has stopped, but I've had alot of faster guys come past me already in 5th because their corner speed through Southern is alot faster, and they start feeding on the power before the second apex. I have trouble getting my head around the fact that you can do that without launching yourself into Bass Straight.
  15. I'm on a 600. whats this torque thing you guys are talking about?
  16. You'll need to drop at least one cylinder :wink:
  17. Next PI track day is the 26th Jan.
  18. So after track day yesterday, this is what I've decided to stick with (after more training from the supercoach):

    T1: Down 1 to 5th, tip in, gas
    T2 (Southern Loop): Down to 4th, then 5th before T3, at the top of the rise
    T4 (Honda): Down 3 to 2nd, then 3rd before and through T5
    T6 (Siberia): 3rd, 4th after the corner, before T7
    T8 (Hayshed): Click 5th then tip in and straight on the gas
    T9 (Lukey Heights): Down to 4th
    T10 (MG): Down 2 to 2nd
    T11: Short shift to 3rd, then 4th after the corner
    T12: Short shift to 5th for the corner, tip in then on the gas
    .......into 6th down the straight.....

    While at my pace (~2:05) I am definitely not in the ideal rev range of the bike, these gears flow really well. Now, after a full day yesterday, those gears are locked in by habit and I don't have to worry about them ever again, and it provides a lot of room for improvement as I bring up my corner speed, which will consequently bring the revs up.

    Doing this, I feel smooth and safe, and therefore my mind can focus on corner entry/lines. I'd invite any other medium-pacers to try it.. :)