Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Petition to ban 4x4's

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by bkdu, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26174480-3102,00.html

    Seems to me that narrow-mindedness as well as stupidity are reigning supreme these days.
    Did it ever occur to these ... people?! ... that
    1. It's not the vehicle that's being an idiot ... but idiots drive all types of vehicles
    2. 4x4's are also used by people who go off-road in their spare time
    3. Not many of us can afford to have a "standard" car PLUS a 4x4 to be used only in our spare time ... meaning when we go shopping, we use the vehicle we have, ie the 4x4
    4. When considering collisions, determine first who caused it ... the 4x4 driver, or perhaps the pedestrian or operator of the other vehicle?!

    How about addressing the root cause of the problem ... idiots behind wheels???
    Oh ... hang on ... we don't do common sense anymore. Lets just legislate everybody's rights away on account of a minority of d!ckheads ... right?!

    However, if we ARE going that far, how about banning prams from busy shopping malls and shopping centers? Considering how inconsiderate and arrogant a lot of the "operators" are, they're a substantial danger to other pedestrians.
    And while we're protecting the dumb and completely useless life forms who dare call themselves human beings, how about banning pedestrians from crossing the road? Instead we should install pedestrian overpasses.
    Let's ban bicycles from roads as well as foothpaths as well ... they're only allowed to use dedicated bicycle lanes.
    And let's not even mention SAAB, Volvo and Camry drivers, shall we?!

    Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people?

    4x4's are a type of vehicle. Personally I think they're very practical - not to mention my rights and freedoms as a human being to make my own choice. Deal with the idiots and not the tools they use to cause damage.

    Rant over ... sorry, narrow-minded and clearly dumb people like these just give me the sh!ts.
    Then again, since they obviously would prefer a dictatorship, make me the ba$tard at the top and I'll be happy ... Dumbania will be the first name change ... to reflect its residents to be ... tehehehe

  2. It's a green-neck thing, isn't it? "Because I think something is not suitable for me, it should be banned for everyone".

    And exactly where would they draw the line? Ban Subaru Foresters along with Nissan Patrols?.
    In truth, I've seen lots of examples of big vehicles (4WD and other) being used for school pickups and creating potential problems. Neither is it particularly easy to police poor driving in these situations. But there is no way that such a rule would be morally justifiable, even if the state provided - at it's expense - workable alternatives for each individual's set of needs. (Impossible).
  3. This is dumb. A surprisingly large number of normal cars have the ability to spin all four wheels now days. Like Subaru's entire lineup. And quite a few sporty german cars (some VW's, Audi's etc). And quite a few Mitsubishi's.
    And most of them use some form of adaptive AWD (e.g. haldex clutch based) so they are hardly gas guzzlers.
  4. The only thing that surprised me when I read this report this morning was that Harold Scruby WASN'T involved :roll:.
  5. That's funny hornet!

    Anyway, petitions mean nothing. Carry on.
  6. This will continue until these nasty, fuel eating, bull bar donning, man, beast and child killing machines are gone!!!! Arrrrrgh!!!...... what twaddle!!!!! :roll:

    I would agree that maybe if you intend on driving a Troop Carrier or the like, some large 4WD's are quite different to drive to the normal family car!... but then again if you are not able to adapt safely... should you be driving anyway?

    But seriously, where do they think people who use the 4WD as their normal mode of transport are gonna drop their kids off?? Will 4WDrivers become second class citizens who are not allowed within certain town or city limits??

    A while back bull bars caused a stir and there was the same hoo haa... but if you intend to travel in a lot of areas, you need a blasted bull bar!!. What do they suggest??.... portable bull bars... that you can remove when you get to the "no go" area??

    Exactly...what is the definition of a 4WD??.....and which ones will be banned and exactly how????
  7. I suspect this is one of those topics (like religion, guns, and cyclists) which will put me on the other side of my motorcycling brothers and sisters...

    Meself, I'm all for large 4WD vehicles in their place. I'll use 4WD vehicles in the "large" context and not include smaller cars with AWD like subaru - I suspect the fuss is more about the larger, land-cruiser style vehicles than the smaller sedans which happen to be 4WD.

    But I'm gonna say it - I object to mosman tractors.

    Fearful drivers seek "extra safety" (caused by lack of driving ability) and ability is compensated for by getting an urban assault vehicle. The driving still blows, but the damage caused to others is increased.

    So in collisions they appear safer for 4WD owners, but more dangerous for everyone else. But on the safety chestnut, RACV reckons:

    Most 4WDs in the city rarely see dirt. They are often justified on the grounds of camping / use as a recreational vehicle etc. They'd have to be taken out pretty much every second weekend to justify the capital + running costs of a "recreational vehicle". As far as my holidays are concerned, economically it would make much more sense to spend $500 to rent something for a weekend than to double annual fuel costs by using one as a full-time vehicle.

    They churn through a lot of fuel for tasks which can generally be accomplished in a much much much smaller vehicle. The emissions technology is improving all the time of course, but they probably still consume double your average sedan.

    I grew up in regional NSW so many mate's families needed a 4WD to get up their driveways - that is cool and I'd not bat an eyelid at that. But I live in Sydney and see a lot of soccer mums driving cars which are far in excess of their requirements. In that regard, I think a 4WD is a thoughtless purchase.

    Given that they are more expensive to run, they have a statistically higher chance of rolling and the chances of getting away camping every weekend are fairly slim, I do begin to question the need for these vehicles in a measurable proportion of owners.

    Six in 10 4WD-owners (59 per cent) live in metropolitan areas - food for thought. SOME people need them for work. SOME people legitimately need them for recreational purposes. These people are not the targets of these petitions - it is the mosman tractors and soccer mums in Hummers who are being chased.

    And I'm all about human freedoms and rights, but....

  8. Personally, I dont think politicians should travel to parliament house in V8 statesmans.

    But this is a no-go issue. Who's to say what vehicle a person *needs*. Thats awfully facist and communist.

    As consumers, people pay for the vehicles they use.
  9. Yea my bike uses about the same amount of fuel as my turbo landcruiser. You just keep believing we should all be legislated into oblivion =D>
  10. I loathe Toorak tractors as much as the next man, but a blanket ban is not the right answer. It's an answer, but not the right one.

    Tariffs and financial penalties won't work either, as they will punish the (mostly reasonable) offroad enthusiasts and INCREASE the "exclusive club" image. What we want to do is get the status-symbol set out of their monster trucks and back into German poseurmobiles where they belong.

    Make them less attractive to bleached bimbos and men with small genitals by sabotaging the marketing machine, and the problem will go away. Once SUVs are "uncool" again, only the proper offroad drivers will bother with them and we'll go back to pre-1990 levels.
  11. I'm not saying we should be legislated into oblivion - just that I think that these sorts of vehicles have their place and stating why I think they are a bit silly in an urban environment.

    Are you sure you are driving a turbo landcruiser? Last time I checked it cost about $80-100 for a full tank of my mates LC, and that lasted a week of normal driving. Costs me about $20 a fortnight for the 600, so unless my maths is wrong....
  12. As for the "selective" banning ... I believe as people we should have a right to choose. Poor driving, however, should be addressed ... and people in "sensible" transportation are just as guilty of that as us 4x4 driving, overcompensating ba$tards.
    As for the visibility argument that frequently gets brought up with this topic ... maintaining proper and safe distance will drastically increase one's visibility ... even when stuck behind a 4x4.
    As for the choice, here are my arguments and reasoning for choosing to drive a Triton:
    1. GF and I have a (new) bub, so had to get rid of our old vehicles, 'cause neither one was suited for installation of a baby capsule and/or child seat.
    2. We'll be spending a lot of effort teaching our young one about the outdoors, rather than PS3 or watching TV ... and a lot of that will be done camping, visiting the islands, etc.
    3. We enjoy spending time at the beach and didn't like the idea of wet and sandy stuff inside the cabin or on carpet ... and boots just aren't convenient and/or big enough to carry everything ... let alone clean them. A tray can be hosed out quite easily.
    4. I have a dog and have always taken him with me when possible (Holden ute previously) ... intend to keep doing that and again don't fancy the idea of wet dog smell throughout the cabin ... hence vehicle had to have a tray.

    Add it all up, and we're left with the choice of a 4x4, dual cab with tray. Won't use the 4x4 mode all that often, but we will need it ... and can't really afford two cars, let alone selling/buying cars whenever needed.

    All I'm saying is, just because someone isn't going off road every weekend doesn't mean they shouldn't own a 4x4 ... most people buy vehicles to suit their individual needs or simply out of preference.

    Also, if we're talking stupid, useability, etc. then most of our bikes should be prohibited as well. Given current traffic conditions, road conditions, speed limits, etc. there is no justifiable reason why anyone should ride a Fireblade, Hyabusa, etc on a public road ... is there?

    I value my personal freedom of choice ... so if I feel like driving a 4x4 or riding a Busa, then that's what I will do. However, if I were to endanger other people by being an idiot - which is a completely separate issue as I can be an idiot in a 1980s sh!tbox - then I should be "convinced" to change that attitude.

    Just my 2c on this.
  13. It won't be easy considering ads such as the Ford territory ones. They are truly blatant in trying to convince you that you need one. Their whole angle is that once you buy one you will be the envy of all of your neighbours! Ha! What a crock.
  14. How about all non-Euro 4WDs that come standard with leather in their home country pay twice the standard rego and twice the LCT, and all Euro 4WDs pay likewise but thrice. If you REALLY have to be a WANKER and buy one of these, you will be able, but will pay a suitable IDIOT tax, which should considerably discourage their use. And those folks who buy something for work purposes or an enthusiast vehicle like a LandCruiser 70 series (which comes std with lovely vinyl) will not be affected.

    The extra rego and tax can be poured directly into the TAC compo fund, because people involved in a crash with these kind of vehicles are going to need it.
  15. Yes your numbers are wrong, my cruiser gets about 9km/l and my bike about 10km/l (and try $120-$150 to fill a cruiser). Yes I am sure I drive a turbo landcruiser, don't you know what kind of vehicle you drive?

    That is the poorest excuse I have heard all day, "it wasn’t aimed at you but it f#cks you all the same" so it is OK.

    Rant away, it is still supposedly a free country and all but don't be surprised when you get pulled up on it.
    I am not going to argue further, you know what they say about wrestling pigs in mud...........
  16. Yeah, what an awesome idea speed demon!

    Same with bikes - anything that puts out less than 140 brake horsepower and has a fairing gets a wanker tax as well!
  17. Ban all cars,bikes trucks and have White Camry's running compressed air with max speed of 10kmh for everyone!!! no exceptions

    PFFFFFT.............. no one likes anyone having something that they don't have.
  18. So I ride and have a 4WD. I have attended rider training and 4WD training. Voluntarily. Because I use both my vehicles as they were intended.

    The Toorak/Mosman tractor issue could be resolved simply by requiring drivers to pass suitable training in order to be allowed to drive a 4WD. Training that would scare the shit out of the average soccer mum, and not a few soccer dads. The possers would either decide not to own a 4WD, would wreck the vehicle during training, or would learn to drive it properly. Personaly I wouldn't even mind if regular update training was required. Say every three years. I believe in responsible riding and driving, in all vehicles. But then people should have more training for normal cars anyway. As with all things, people need to take responsibility for their actions.

    But this is a free capitalist democracy, and people have freedom of choice, as they should. So anyone who wants a 4WD, and can afford it, can buy one.

    Finally, anyone who suggests more taxes, direct or indirect, on 4WDs can well and truly **** off. Seriously, your opinion is not welcome. 4WDs already cost more than most cars to run. We don't need more taxes on a minority just because we have something you don't want us to. If anyone goes down that line of thought, I'll be looking into their lifestyle and starting a few petitions myself.
  19. Don't the Top Gear boys get abused when they take 4x4's into London?

    Bloody greenies... :evil:
  20. Thanks for your support! I'm thinking of running for parliament with this idea, and am looking for a campaign manager. Are you available? Please say yes!

    Last I checked, motorcycles didn't weigh between 1.8 and 2.4 tonnes posing a massive safety risk in built up areas, obscure other people's vision of the road, and consume non-renewable resources in biblical proportions, but for the sake of being PC let's roll with your idea and discriminate against all road user groups when there's actually one in particular that is exercising their liberties at the expense of others.