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Discussion in 'Racing, Motorsports, and Track Days' started by cejay, Sep 1, 2008.
Bunch of sooks! Did you see the top 10 from last night? B, M, B, M, B, M, B, M, B, M............
Yep, those Michy's really must suck eh? :roll:
Damn I hope Michelin riders, particularly Hayden, come out and hose everyone at the next race.
Yeah, and if you looked at the results from the previous 3 rounds you would have seen a totally different story.
I really can't fathom why you are so unable to understand why a Michelin runner would want to change. It's not that Michelin can't make a winning tyre, it's that they have managed to drop the ball enough times to make it impossible for a rider to have confidence that they won't do it again.
Last year they were comprehensively out developed by Bridgestone. The year before they had had their issues. And then this year after a good start, they either stopped development or just totally mis-managed what tyres to bring to a race.
I know you've competed in other sports before and I'm trying to think of an analogy that would make sense to you, but I'm pretty sure that whatever I did or said you'd just dismiss it.
And yet, still won the championship....
What makes sense to me is to try and support your sponsor/suppliers to develop their product to be better than the opposition. Pedrobot and Rossi both had underdeveloped bikes last year, which had moments of glory and moments of failure, neither of them jumped ship to a different bike did they? With a different tyre to Stoner, they both had an opportunity to develop something superior to their rival, instead, they just accepted that the best they could do was be the same as him in this aspect. They have reduced the opportunities they have to be better because of impatience imho and should have helped Michelin to get through the rough patch. It's not like Michelin are incapable of running at the front like the Dunlops were.
See, I told you.
I can't believe how you can't work out why they would feel the way they do.
Michelin turn up at Laguna Seca with tyres that can't be used in the morning. They arrive at Brno, after having a whole MONTH off and supply a tyre that has their main employee (Edwards) complaining that he didn't fly 15hrs and drive 2hrs to finish at the back.
At the wet German GP a week or so before Laguna their wet weather tyre was incapable of running with the Bridgestones.
Tell you what. Let's do a track day in a few weeks, just leave the tyre selection to me. Then tell me how happy you are with my performance when I turn up with totally the wrong compound and construction.
I'm not sure about you, but after 2yrs of 'working' with someone, trying to help them 'develop' their tyres, if they still can't be relied upon to turn up with the right selection, I'd ditch them too.
I should have just accepted that my opinion should be the same as yours!
Now, where do I buy some Bridgestones........
Did you see Stoners interview on RPM yesterday? He said the crash after the crash at the last race that the team looked at all the data, and the front tyre was shot! After 6 laps!!! Complaints? Nope.
I understand, I don't agree, that's all.
Michelin got second last night, a stones throw away from Rossi. Yeah, they must really suck. In fact, given that Lorenzo duffed the start, his race time from lap 2 to the finish was probably as good or better than Rossi.
Oh, and don't forget that Rossi'd Bridgestones were a bees d#ck away from ending his race on the first lap when he got bucked out of the seat, then the michy would have won!
I reckon that was probably more from first-lap-ham-fisted-over-exuberance than anything else Mark but your right about a small incident can alter the results markedly.
What I am stumped with Michelin, is that the withdrew from F1 and were claiming that this would free up a lot of manpower to dedicate to the MotoGP effort. Yet despite this, they have dropped the ball repeatedly this year, plus on top of that, Bridgestones have still been the superior tire at the majority of the tracks.
Triway, there is a point you are missing.
Michelin make great tyres, that is beyond a doubt. Their problem is manpower and organisational.
On Thursday, before a wheel has turned, the teams have to select their tyres for the weekend. They are allocated a limited number of front and rear tyres. The problem is, you can only select the tyres that the company bring. A rider does not select tyres from the whole range. The team can only influence the tyre company a certain amount.
If they bring 'Type A' and you think you really need 'Type B' and they didn't bring it, then that's it. Further, if the tyre company don't think you should run a certain tyre, they override the team. That is exactly what happened in Germany when Michelin would not let the riders select the wet tyre they wanted.
In Laguna Seca, they decided they needed to bring a range of hard tyres. This was despite specific requests from Hayden and HRC not to. They were advised that the super hot temperatures of 2006 were not predicted and that the track conditions had changed. They were offered the services of a local rider to test the track in a trackday the week before. This was declined. In the end, the tyres they took with them were next to useless in the cool conditions of the early morning (requiring the use of intermediates).
With a 4 week break, they turned up at Brno with a woeful selection of rubber, none of which would work.
As for Stoner, that interview might have been tailored for Australian conditions, as for at least a week afterwards he was maintaining that there was nothing wrong with the bike or the tyre.
Yesterday he blamed the accident on a scrubbed in front tyre from morning warmup.
What would you do in Danibot's position? You believe you are a champion. You perceive that your main rivals are aligned with a tyre supplier that are firmly on the ball and at the top of their game. You were absolutely promised a major turnaround from Michelin, yet, for 3 races in succession they failed to deliver in the most spectacular of ways.
Look forward to seeing this move progress. There's no doubt Dani can ride, but now the pressure's on to perform more than ever before. Can't wait.
Looking forward to it as well. It will add interest to the rest of the Season.
Pedrobot has finally tested the pneumatic valve engine and clocked a 1min 34.652secs on his new bridgestone race tyres.
Sunday during the race his michelin shod spring valve engine only managed a 1min 35.479secs.
Although apparently the pneumatic valve engine is too aggressive for him ....poor thing, maybe he should give the ducati a try.
be interesting to see how Indy goes
What some poeple are forgetting - what if Pedrosa sucks and does not work happily with the Bridgestones......
milandri does not work well with the Ducati so is it not feasible that Pandrosa may not work with the tyres?
I think it will be only a matter of time before this moves to a one tyre make series.. I've got a fence pailing firmly up my bum on this one. On the one hand, we need closer racing for the entertainment, but on the other hand, MotoGP is THE pinnacle of bike racing, and like F1 should (within reason) be the turf for continued technological development, which may slow without competition.
Even with a one make tyre, parity will still be an issue, particularly for non-factory teams who get parts later etc..
If we go one tyre, how long till we go 'one engine', or one traction system etc, and before we know it, is the A1GP which I dont watch..
Basically, my brain just farted on this post
Anyone want to take this one???
It pains me to say this, but Kawasaki's effort is definitely a parody of a factory effort at elite level.
I dont what you are talking about
"Me fail english? thats unpossible!"
Yeah, it seems poor, Rob, but as they are spending millions, I am sure that they are taking it seriously.
Woops, who was it said Pedrosa was making a stupid choice jumping tyre brands mid-season? In his FIRST TEST on race compound bridgestones with the new pneumatic valve Honda, he put in a time 0.2 seconds better than the best race time Rossi (or anyone else) set on the weekend.
Ladies and gentlemen, we may have a race on our hands before the end of this season!
I don't understand the surprise.
HRC run Bridgestones via the Gresini satellite team. Nakano upgraded to the latest spec RC212V at the previous two rounds. This removed any uncertainty about whether the RC212V would work with the both the old and new RC212V chassis and engine.
Pedrosa's championship is a dim and very distant possibility. By getting in now, he is allowing himself the chance to become fully acclimatised to the tyres for 2009 without having to wait until the first tests at the end of the season. With the championship extremely unlikely, the absolute worst that could happen is that he gains experience in setup and riding adaption.