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Payroll question / legal avenues

Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by VTRBob, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Ok I'll try to keep just to the facts without the alcohol and emotions clouding things :? :LOL:

    1st off yes my employer is a Di*k / A hole etc etc so I dont need reminding :p

    Been with the company 8 months now and still casual with no intention by my employer to make me full time but thats not the issue.

    Since starting I have had to fight for every cent of my pay, including such things as tool and afternoon shift allowances. Which to date has been zip!

    Today I finally get an afternoon shift and tool allowance BUT thinking I wont notice, they have dropped my hourly rate down and not paid the full allowances anyway :? :evil:

    eg : was getting 12.50 an hr [ not my actual rate ]
    today am getting 10.00 an hr

    normal 38hrs @ 10 = 380.00
    OT 2.5hr @ 15 = 37.00

    Afternoon shift allow 380 x 15% = 57.00
    Tool Allow = 10.50

    tax etc etc

    Now my award states 13.95 tool allow for starters
    and shouldn't the 15% be on the total hrs not just the ord time ?

    Also now they had admitted that yes I should be getting both these allowances, can I put in for back pay ?

    I should also be paid an extra 0.65hr for what the award would call dirty work, but I dont want that to be the straw that breaks the camels back :LOL: [ I work on a garbage truck fleet .... there are some nights that there is no way I would even attempt to leave before having a shower :shock: :LOL: ]

    My award is the :Metal engineering and associated industries NSW state

    I do have a copy of this award, which I'm trolling through in between drinks.

    Any help would be much appreciated for when I confront the manager on Monday either with or without a letter of demand :)
  2. ACTU.....you pay for them, use them.
  3. man find a new job, i hate companies that dont look after their employees for their hard work, makes me sick
  4.  Top
  5. Agree with what others have said.

    If I were you, I'd look for another job. I couldn't stand working under a regime like that, and if you are successful with getting what you are due - they're not going to be happy about it at all (read: make your life miserable).
  6. I don't know how it works for you, but in my job, the highest penalty applicable is paid for the shift, but a penalty rate is NEVER paid ontop of another penalty.


    Afternoon shift = 15%
    Night shift = 17%
    Saturday = 50%
    Sunday = 75%

    Afternoon or night shift on Sat. or Sun. is 50 or 75%. I don't get another 15-17% on top. Is this what you're talking about?
  7. Thanks for the input so far guys :)

    Email sent but being the w/end I'm not expecting a reply till at least Monday.

    Been looking for awhile now, not that easy up here and with a mortgage I can't just leave without having a new job already lined up :? :cry:

    Nah it's been stated that the ONLY full time staff are management and thats the way it will always be :roll:

    I'm only after the penalty rate owed [ afternoon shift ] which as you said is 15% above the base rate :)

    Casual + 15% + tool allow, all this is clearly stated in the award

    As I said I've been trolling through the award and the pay rate they have dropped me back to is the casual award rate, which equates to a 65.00 a week pay cut.
    So they have given with one hand and taken with the other :evil:
  8. Make sure you are looking at the right parts - the Forward With Fairness legislation overrides some parts of the State Awards in regard to entitlements.

    Dont have any of the paperwork at home (obviously) but I am pretty sure that after 6 months of being on casual rates an employer is supposed to give you the option of full time rates with leave entitlements or for you to remain on casual rates. This must be mutually agreed upon.

    They cant reduce your rate without giving some sort of reasoning, its unconscionable.

    Find something else then lodge a complaint with the relevant departments.

    Good luck with it.
  9. Are you getting holiday entitlements etc? It's illegal to keep someone perminately on casual, but you can be on utility which is basically casual but you get holidays etc it a middle point and quite legal.

    As someone said if you are a member of the ACTU I would certainly let them sort it out for you as that is what they do and it's times like these you'll be thankful for them.
  10. There is a twelve month rule with Casuals.
    If you work the same shift for the same employer for twelve months as a temp you can claim that it constitutes permanent employment and they have no choice but to declare you permanent.
    We purposely rotate our casuals shifts so they can't claim permanency against us or the agency we use.

    Sux if you are the casual!
  11. um my understanding from our HR dept is rotating shifts does nothing to change your responsabilites to casuals. The new rules were introduced mainly for nurses getting shafted, and they work on rotating shifts.

    Wage line is QLD state "on a regular and systematic basis, for several periods of employment during a period of at least 1 year".

    Might pay for them to check with their local IR dept as well.
  12. Bob, you guys are going to have to move to Sydney, or back to Melbourne, and get yourself employed with a company that has a basic knowledge of its legal responsibilities to its employees, for heaven's sake!!!!!!!
  13. i'd bring it up with the Dept of Employment.
  14. Judging by the "Rates Summary", assuming you are a Casual Tradesperson, Classification Level C10, Casual, Base award rate (Per hour) is 19.46

    Some Examples of the Old Task Based classifications compared to the current Skills Based Structure: 
    C10 - Tradespersons - Fitter, Mechanic (Motor, Marine, Plant, Refrigeration), Turner, Shipwright-boatbuilder, all Smiths, Boilermaker, 1st Class (Machinist, Sheetmetal Worker, Welder, Metal Ceiling Fixer). 
    C11 - Motor Cycle Mechanic. 
    C12 - 2nd Class (Machinist, Sheetmetal Worker, Welder, Metal Ceiling Fixer, Spray Painter,Silk Screen Maker, Storeman, Packer or Dispatcher. 
    C13 - 3rd Class (Machinist, etc), Process Worker, Dry Enamelling Painter (brush or spray) 
    Also,in addition to your base hourly rate, you should be recieving a lump sum of 13.95 per week, and an additional $0.49 cents per hour for "Dirty work". If you are a leading hand/team manager then you should be recieving the respective lump sum, and if you are a first aider, I'm assuming you should recieve a $12.95 lump per week. if the Trucks are considered confined spaces (IE you require PPE and a confined spaces certificate), you should be receiving $0.64 per hour you are in the confined space)

    Tool Allowances  
    Tradesperson  $13.95 per week 
    1st Year Apprentice  $5.86 per week 
    2nd Year Apprentice  $7.67 per week 
    3rd Year Apprentice  $10.46 per week 
    4th Year Apprentice  $12.28 per week   
    Leading Hand  Amount 3 - 10 employees  $28.45 per week 
    11 - 20 employees  $42.50 per week 
    over 20 employees  $54.10 per week   
    Other Rates and Allowances  
    Amount Motor vehicle allowance  $0.71 per kilometre 
    First Aid allowance  $12.95 per week 
    Meal allowance  $10.90 per day 
    Cold Places  $0.48 per hour 
    Hot Places - between 46 and 54 degrees celsius  $0.49 per hour 
    Hot Places - In excess of 54 degrees celsius  $0.64 per hour 
    Wet Places  $0.49 per hour 
    Confined Spaces  $0.64 per hour 
    Dirty Work - Ship Repair Work  $0.64 per hour 
    Dirty Work - All other work  $0.49 per hour 
    Lead Works  $0.35 per hour 
    If you are an Afternoon Shift worker working a regular shift, you should be getting paid 15% more

    "Afternoon Shift" means any shift finishing after 6.00 pm and at or before midnight."

    6.2Special Provisions for Shiftworkers 
    This clause defines afternoon and night shift and prescribes the allowances for such shifts as well as the 
    loadings payable for Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays Shifts. 
    6.2.1    Definitions ? 
    For the purposes of this award:  
    "Rostered Shift" means any shift of which the employee concerned has had at least 48 hours 
    "Afternoon Shift" means any shift finishing after 6.00 pm and at or before midnight. 
    "Night Shift" means any shift finishing subsequent to midnight and at or before 8.00 am. 
    By agreement between the employer and the majority of employees concerned or in appropriate 
    cases an individual employee, the span of hours over which shifts may be worked may be 
    altered by up to one hour at either end of the span. 
    6.2.2    Afternoon and Night Shift Allowances ? 
    6.2.2    (a)    An employee whilst on afternoon or night shift shall be paid for such shift 15 per cent 
    more than his or her ordinary rate. 
    6.2.2    (b)    An employee who works on an afternoon or night shift which does not continue: 
    (i)    for at least five successive afternoon or night shifts or six successive afternoon or 
    night shifts in a six day workshop (where no more than eight ordinary hours are 
    worked on each shift); or 
    (ii)    for at least 38 ordinary hours (where more than eight ordinary hours are worked 
    on each shift and the shift arrangement is in accordance with subclauses 6.1.2 or 
    shall be paid for each shift 50 percent for the first three hours and 100 percent for the 
    remaining hours, in addition to his or her ordinary rate. 
    You should have recieved a written offer of cornversion to full time employment, after a period of six months

    According to the award, 4.2A part B

    (b)    Casual Conversion 
    (i)    A casual employee engaged by a particular employer on a regular and systematic basis 
    for a sequence of periods of employment under this Award during a calendar period of 
    six months shall thereafter have the right to elect to have his or her ongoing contract of 
    employment converted to permanent full-time employment or part-time employment if 
    the employment is to continue beyond the conversion process prescribed by this 

    For a fully qualified Mechanic, your base wage should be $19.46
    For every hour you're on the trucks, (And the trucks are dirty) you should recieve $19.95 per hour.
    For every hour you're in confined spaces, you should recieve $20.10 per hour.
    For every hour you're in confined spaces and it's a dirty environment you should recieve $20.59 per hour.

    IN addition, if you're on Afternoon shift, your base wage should be $22.38 per hour

    IN addition, you should recieve $13.95 per week for tools

    So for 8 months, at 38 hours per week, gross income at $437, arvo shift, the difference is about $13,000.

    As Per Dispute Resolution Procedure Part 3.2

    Each enterprise must establish a procedure to avoid or resolve disputes. 
    3.2.1    A procedure for the avoidance or resolution of disputes will apply in all enterprises covered by 
    this Award. The mechanism and procedures for resolving industrial disputes will include, but 
    not be limited to, the following: 
    3.2.1    (a)    The employee/s concerned will first meet and confer with their immediate supervisor. 
    The employee/s may appoint another person to act on their behalf including a shop 
    steward or delegate of their union.  
    Subject to 3.2.2 and 3.2.3 where the shop steward or delegate is involved he/she shall be 
    allowed the necessary time during working hours to interview the employee(s) and the 
    3.2.1    (b)    If the matter is not resolved at such a meeting the parties will arrange further discussions 
    involving more senior management as appropriate. The employee may invite a union 
    official to be involved in the discussions. The employer may also invite into the 
    discussions an officer of the employer organisation to which the employer belongs.  
    The shop steward or delegate shall be allowed at a place designated by the employer, a 
    reasonable period of time during working hours to interview the duly accredited Union 
    Officials of the Union to which they belong. 
    3.2.1    (c)    If the matter remains unresolved, the employer may refer it to a more senior level of 
    management or to a more senior national officer within the employer organisation. The 
    employee may invite a more senior union official to be involved in the discussions. In the 
    event there is no agreement to refer the matter to a more senior level or it is agreed that 
    such a reference would not resolve the matter the parties shall jointly or individually refer 
    the matter to the Industrial Relations Commission of New South Wales for assistance in 
    resolving the matter. 
    3.2.2     In order to facilitate the procedure in 3.2.1: 
    3.2.2    (a)    The party with the grievance must notify the other party at the earliest opportunity of the 
    3.2.2    (b)    Throughout all stages of the procedure all relevant facts must be clearly identified and 
    3.2.2    (c)    Sensible time limits must be allowed for completion of the various stages of discussion. 
    However, the parties must co-operate to ensure that the disputes resolution procedures 
    are carried out as quickly as possible. 
    3.2.3    While the parties are attempting to resolve the matter the parties will continue to work in 
    accordance with this award and their contract of employment unless the employee has a 
    reasonable concern about an imminent risk to his or her health and safety. Subject to relevant 
    provisions of the Occupational Health and Safety Act 2000 and Occupational Health and 
    Safety Regulation 2001, even if the employee has a reasonable concern about an imminent risk 
    to his or her health or safety, the employee must not unreasonably fail to comply with a 
    direction by his or her employer to perform other available work, whether at the same 
    enterprise or another enterprise, that is safe and appropriate for the employee to perform. 
    1) Immediate Supervisor/Union Rep meets with Supervisor
    2) Next Higher Up/Union Officials
    3) Industrial Relations Comission

    I'm sure if you can't talk to your management, you could refer it straight to the IRC, but it would help your case if you follow it up. What does your employment contract say?
  15. this is where Bob's probably in a bind. If he does stir the pot his employer may decide that given that he's a casual that there is no more work for him at this time. At best he could lodge a pay claim, try and get back what he's owed. But in the meantime if I were him I'd be looking for work elsewhere.

    Thing is, he's a diesel mech. His skills should be in high demand. Certainly, NS Komatsu down here has a few on the books as there is plenty of work for them.

    Whatever, it's now up to Bob, armed with all this info and helpful advice as to what he wants to do next. Hopefully the boss will realise that he's an asset to be retained (after all, don't businesses spew forth the rhetoric about their employees being their greatest assets?).
  16. Exactly what I was thinking as I wrote it; it's never going to be pretty if you're a casual. Though bob would be able to make more working at maccas.
  17. Once again thanks for all your input guys :)

    Hornet you don't know how close we are to selling and moving back to 'civilization' :LOL:
    Every one you talk to up here has employer / pay problems :evil:

    Anyhoo quick update before I head off to work :?

    Spent most of the morning on the phone to the ACTU and Fairwork etc, seem I do have my boss by the balls .. BUT knowing what he is like I have to think carefully about my next move till I have another job lined up.

    I have a workplace contract that says I will be paid X per hr casual plus, any and all general conditions set out by the award. :twisted:

    The ACTU can't help except to enforce the award conditions, and Fairwork can only act on Award rates, so as I was being paid above the award any amount they come up with will be well short of what I'm owed.
    My workplace contract gives me grounds for Common Law action though if I want to push my claims as far as possible :)
  18. If the difference really is $13k, take it all the way. Fortunately it sounds like you're a union member, Do they offer free legal advice in your area? Also, make sure you go through the paperwork pile and pull out anything relating to your job there, every payslip you can find, every tool reciept.

    I can feel your pain, they really have you by the short and curlys when you're a casual worker.

    As for a necessary (and apparently heavily in demand) occupation, it seems silly that you can earn more working retail!
  19. Coupla points.

    First, if you do push for your pay and they cut off your hours as a result, you should be able to follow this through as in effect an unfair dismissal.

    However, I would recommend finding a decent place to work, THEN pursuing the underpayment. Legal advice we had recently was that you can claim for the last three years backpay.

    In any case, the recent changes to IR law has definitely made things more on your side than your employer's. I'd suggest that the new regime will provide all the assistance that you'll need.

    And basically, any employer who tries crap like that deserves to be put through the ringer. And I employ people and still think that.
  20. Backmarker, let me know if you have any labouring jobs going in Adelaide, my brother wants to move back there.

    Sorry for the hijack.