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Discussion in 'The Pub' at netrider.net.au started by motormouse, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Looks like I won't make it to Melb for the Easter weekend after all :( :(

    Bullbars suck.

    They defeat crumple zones. They transmit all the force to the other vehicle. They severely screw up occupants in other smaller vehicles they hit.

    I was driving my Toyota Echo which was struck 1/3 head on by a Nissan Patrol with a 'real' bullbar. I have a badly bruised sternum and knee (Patella) from where I hit under the dash board. Adrian, my passenger, has severe chest pain, cracked ribs, a cracked sternum and back pain. Most of this is from when the inertia lock in the seatbelt kicked in. But boy do I have a new appreciation for seatbelts - they saved both our lives.

    I was was travelling at approx 30Km/h in one direction then it was a a sudden and instantaneous stop and then was pushed BACKWARDS from our original direction of travel...

    There was not a single element of force reduction on the 4WD's behalf... they literally drove over us... and not a single panel bent or absorbed impact on the 4WD... infact... my car has bent chassis rails, yet the 4WD has a dented quarter panel and a smash headlight. The entire 80km+ impact was transmitted into Adrian and myself.

    We were having a great day out and sightseeing -

    And then this happened: PqCXeR0.

    This is the damage to the mobile brick wall that hit us: aV1zIMjA.

    Note the lane position in the pic - thats pretty much the 4WD rolled directly back from the impact... lotta room to pass huh..


    I was really lookin forward to my holiday too :( :(
  2. oh noooooooo :cry: tess u poor baby sending big hugs your way.

    we will be in canberra next weekend so will give you a buzz and try and catch up :)
  3. So make sure your next car is a Patrol with a bullbar?

    At least you didnt hit the coach behind it!
  4. I doubt it would have made much difference if the 4x4 had been fitted with a bull bar or not.

    The 2 plus tonnes of weight plus the full chassis of the 4x4 would have had pretty much the same effect.

    It's physics... if you run two objects into one another where one is twice as heavy and doesn't have the ability to absorb impact it will cause the smaller object to bounce backwards.

    Sorry to hear about your accident though :(
  5. Moved this to off topic as it's car related not bike.

    Hope you guys are feeling well and consider yourselves lucky you or the 4wd were not going much faster.
    This head on type accident is definitely frightening and one of the few time I believe speed kills is true.
  6. fcuking idiots in their tanks feeling completely invulnerable, driving down the middle of a narrow road.

  7. Bugger Tess, that sucks. :(

    I hope you're feeling better and have new wheels again soon. :)
  8. Glad to hear you're ok.
  9. looks like you were both in the middle of the road.
    ah well, coulda been much worse. hope you both heal well.
  10. Glad you survived what could have been a very nasty incident indeed.

    It looks like you both will be sharing equal responsibility - neither driver seems to have been prepared for another oncoming vehicle.

    Agreed. They don't belong in the city.

    This was in the country, though, so that is a different matter.

    4WDs don't (or didn't) have to have crumple zones built in and so even without a bull bar the Nissan would have inflicted very serious damage to your vehicle because of the difference in size at the impact area (the bumper on the Nissan versus the crumple panels on the Echo), design (H chassis on the 4WD) and mass.

    There actually is room to pass, although not a lot. The trick is to always approach blind corners slowly, and on your side of the road.

    In the first pic above it is reasonably clear that:

    1) The 4WD was 1.5 to 2m in from his edge of the road. Look especially for the brake marks from his left wheels just to the left of the stone in the lower front left edge of the pic.

    Even when he backed off from you and swung well over to the left he still had maybe a metre before he would have hit the edge of the road.

    That guy didn't budge very much from his centred position to avoid you. That looks like his braking mark for the r/h wheel in the third pic - he certainly didn't give you much room. If it is his braking line, since he was well over and made no attempt to avoid you, I guess he could be in some trouble? The police came?

    2) The Echo came around a blind corner travelling in the middle of the road. Brake marks from the right side wheels are visible in an arc behind the car, just to the left of and underneath the silver trim hanging down at the front.

    The last metre of that travel veers more sharply to the left and is more strongly defined, as it also carried the force of the Nissan bearing down on the front of the car.

    3) The second vehicle image (OP sitting behind wheel?) shows about 1m of roadway (it could even be more) visible to the left of the car.

    Since the damage to the front of the car extends no more than 0.5m towards the left hand side, had you made it to the gutter you would have clearly missed the other vehicle completely.

    Had you been driving on what, according to the surface and patterns there, is obviously a well-travelled road, in your correct position before a blind corner, even allowing for the other guy being over the centreline, the accident should have been avoidable.

    I don't say this to make you feel worse. Accidents are avoidable, not inevitable. If people study and learn the lessons from them they become safer drivers and riders.

    You are extremely blessed to have escaped from this one as lightly as you did.

    All the best

    Trevor G
  11. ^^
    i agree with every point you made trevor. i learnt to drive on the good ol' 5.4m wide dirt roads.
    there is a lesson in there for all...
  12. The cops were called and got a free ride with the ambo's to Jindy. The cops took our statements and I heard my car is a write off :(

    I can't see how I could have been any further over. We had just passed a car with trailer about 50 metres earlier and seemed to have no problem. Cause we'd just passed them we were already going slow like I posted and were already all the way over.

    When she hit us the 4WD actually lifted us up and towards the centre of the road due to the force of the impact. Any further over and I would have lost a mirror.
  13. Would have been better off, I suppose, just losing a mirror. Lucky for you that you weren't on Sparkles.
  14. you know, i heard all this unfold on the scanner!
    it didnt occur to me until you just mentioned jindi police, i remeber the MVA involving you (your name of course :p ) because they ran your details over the radio. you'll be pleased to know that you arent a known criminal :LOL:
  15. UNless you NEED to mount a winch, you have no need for a bullbar full stop.
    They don't stop you hitting roos (and when you do, damage is transmitted directly to teh chassis, which will bend, and is very expensive to fix properly, if it doesn't roll you over), you can mount lights on nudge bars etc.

    Regards, Andrew.
  16. you sound like my boss!
    he wont give me one for the 3 week old hilux for that very reason :LOL:

    as far the accident goes, me & trev are really on guessing, and we could be completely wrong tess. apologies for that.
    only you & the other party really know the full details, and i'm sure you both know where you went wrong/right :)
  17. It was sure one hell of an impact though! You had some good insights into what happened - I just wish it didn't happen and I was in Melb right now having dinner with my family.

    Generally you should look at the back of the vehicle - it's more indicative of the line of travel. The front (as in this case) usually gets thrown around, esp when a 4WD wins over an echo :mad:

    The next echo I buy will have a bull bar too :p
  18. yer but they do smash little cars and still drive away .
    bull bar , nudge bar is the reason for the accident .
    everyone should have bullbars except taxi drivers.
  19. You don't know what you are talking about :evil:
  20. ^^^ Quite correct, but you don't want to start that unwinnable debate again.

    Consider this though: Without a bullbar the Patrols right wheel may have ridden up the low front of the Echo, tipped it over, and the Patrol could have ended up rolling down the side of that hill. You wouldn't wish that on someone.

    I've had some very nervous passengers when I drive close to the outside edge on a blind corner like that, wth good reason.

    I'm glad neither of you were too badly hurt though Tess. A cracked sternum can hurt lots, so I've heard.