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QLD Over-zealous policing

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Kamikaze_Kawasaki, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-down-on-hot-day/story-fnihsrf2-1226793936291

    Brisbane motorist fined for leaving car window slightly down on hot day

    Julian Harris with fine he copped for leaving his car window down. Source: News Limited

    A FATHER who left the window down on his parked and unattended car on a scorching summer's day has been slugged with a fine that has left him hot under the collar.

    Julian Harris was visiting family in Brisbane's north on Sunday when he decided to leave two windows down "three to four" centimetres to let some of the hot air escape from the parked car on the 34C day.

    It was a decision that left the father of one with a $44 fine and a rap across the knuckles from police.

    "It was 34 degrees so I left the windows down slightly so it wouldn't be boiling hot for my 3-year-old son when we got back in.

    "I was trying to do the right thing…it's just what you do with it being so hot in Queensland."

    Mr Harris returned to the car, which was parked on Windsor Place at Deception Bay, about two hours later to discover the fine for an offence he had never heard of.
    Under Queensland law, if a driver is more than 3m from their car, the vehicle must be "secured" with the engine off, hand brake applied, ignition key removed (if no one over 16 remains in vehicle) and windows up with a gap no more than 5cm.
  2. That is a new type of low for the police, the police wonder why people bag them out and dont like them, total abuse of power, the cop must have been low on his monthly quota
  3. This is insanity.

    This is even more insane. So, if a passenger is in the car, the windows have to be up? That's what it says.
  4. but... it says a gap no more than 5cm and the driver says it was 3 - 4 cm... How do you even contest something like that?
  5. unbelievable, that copper has done more in 5 minutes to wreck any respect the QLD public had left that all others in the past 20 years, petty crap!
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Happy to be corrected, but I believe this infringement has been withdrawn.
  7. I hope so, that would be the only reasonable action that could be taken
  8. and don't forget this one:

  9. Still a stupid rule
  10. Like police ever investigate it......
  11. I thought it was illegal to leave kids in a parked car...
  12. The interior is going to be very hot whether windows are fully up or 1cm down. To reduce temperature park in the shade or run the engine with aircon on for a few minutes upon your return.

    It does not. Refer to the ARR 213 (5)(a)(b).

    213 Making a motor vehicle secure

    (1) This section applies to the driver of a motor vehicle who stops and leaves the vehicle on a road, unless the driver need not comply with the section under another provision of this regulation.

    (2) Before leaving the vehicle, the driver must—

    (a) apply the vehicle’s parking brake effectively; or

    (b) if weather conditions, for example, snow, prevent the effective operation of the parking brake—effectively restrain the vehicle’s movement in another way.
    Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

    (3) Also, before leaving the vehicle the driver must switch off the engine if the driver will be more than 3m from the closest part of the vehicle.
    Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

    (4) In addition, before leaving the vehicle the driver must remove the ignition key if there is no-one 16 years or older remaining in the vehicle.
    Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

    (5) If the driver will be over 3m from the closest part of the vehicle and there is no-one left in the vehicle, the driver must—

    (a) if the windows of the vehicle can be secured—secure the windows immediately before leaving the vehicle; and

    (b) if the doors of the vehicle can be locked—lock the doors immediately after leaving the vehicle.
    Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

    (6) For subsection (5), a window is secure even if it is open by up to 50mm.

    In NSW, Reg 213 allows window to be open up to 20mm.

    It is an Australian Road Rule.

    It was simply introduced to reduce police hours investigating theft from or of a vehicle. The see the same offence being committed when a driver leaves the petrol bowser to pay for fuel.

    No, not necessarily.

    Under Criminal Code s 364A, a person who leaves child under 12 for an unreasonable time without making reasonable provision for the supervision and care of the child during that time commits a misdemeanour or minor indictable offence, punishable by a maximum penalty of 3 years imprisonment. Whether the time is unreasonable depends on all the relevant circumstances.

    We need to give due regard to the word 'unreasonable' and how it applies in each case. Leaving a 10yo child in the shade at a petrol station for a minute while paying for fuel does not breach this provision. But if a person were to leave an infant locked in an unshaded car at a service station while they go inside to join a queue to pay for fuel may be a breach.

    The difference here is that the circumstances in the second incident involving an infant could be seen as potentially unreasonable compared to the circumstances in the first.

    The courts will take into consideration the various factors which contribute to the circumstances of the incident eg. reason for leaving the minor unattended, age of the child, presence or absence of heat/shade, where the vehicle was left and how long the child was left alone etc.

    The relatively minimal effort to remove the child from the vehicle, home or anywhere else is negligible when compared to the burden of guilt, regret or grief that results when seemingly innocent circumstances can dramatically change.

  13. Cheers.
    It was irrelevant anyway. I misread.
  14. Luckily for some of us that not all jurisdictions adopted all of the "Model" Australian Road Rules and some law enforcement authorities still exercise some discretion when enforcing those rules

    South Australian Road Traffic (Road Rules-Ancillary and Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 1999

    20—Exemption from requirements relating
    to making motor vehicles secure
    Drivers in South Australia are exempt from rule 213 (Making a motor vehicle secure).
  15. he didn't leave his kid in the car. he had the windows down a little so that when he & his son got back in the car it wouldn't be too hot.

    as for kids in cars, Justus is correct. And there are certain other provisions/offences which can be applied to based on WHERE the parent is/where their kid is - for example a parent who leaves a kid in their car while gambling might be in all kids of additional strife.
  16. And instead direct their time and resources to check hundreds of parked vehicles (as opposed to a handful of instances of theft) with measuring tapes to see if the gap in the windows comply with the requirement of the very intelligent road rule.
    That makes absolute sense.
  17. I'll make sure to leave the windows up on my bike in future.
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. It's a difficult situation for sure. If the infringement is not issued, then a person can freely say "Oh, I do that all the time and the coppers don't do anything about it."

    When they DO something about it, the whinge is the same.

    However - what is NOT in the public domain is any information about circumstances leading up to the infringement being issued. Did the guy "fail the attitude test"? We will never know.

    Taken to the extreme, what would someone here say if an alleged perp were let off because he "only raped her a little bit", and the victim was someone they cared about? Its the extreme, I know, but my point is that its impossible to take a sane view of a situation without knowing the circs.

    Should this "window" law be on the books? I don't know. But should you be shooting the messenger, or campaigning to have a law you dont like changed?

    Would YOU like a constant barrage of public criticism for just doing YOUR job?
  19. Every state has odd or peculiar regulations/laws, the ones you quote seem to have little or no relevance to this topic or motoring in general.

    My point was although you say rule 231 is one of the Australian Road Rules, it is not applicable in all states or jurisdictions, the states got together to develop the Australian Road Rules, not all jurisdictions wanted all of the peculiar rules to be included so they made exemption to some and kept or introduced other rules not included in the ARR's.

    Just as some seemingly crazy rules were included, there were rules that some states had that made a lot of sense that were not included as the "larger" states with a bigger voice didn't want them.

    We now have legislation much closer to being consistent around the country but while it is left to each state to legislate for themselves we will never have the same rules Australia wide, without constitutional change this will never be remedied.