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Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' at netrider.net.au started by Choofalong, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. So: I've passed my L's, and have been saving up: it's basically down to the last 2 weeks, before I go and make my Deposit, on my first bike!

    It's come down to 3 Bikes: the CF Moto Leader 150, The Yamaha YZF-R15, and the (yet to be released) Honda CB125e.

    I have my reasons for sticking to these bikes, (mainly Insurance, and up front costs: for the price of 1 year on a 250+ I can get 3 years COMPREHENCIVE cover for anything under 225cc) and I am definatly wanting the peace of mind of a Brand New Bike, with Warranty from the Dealer.

    Also, another reason is the fact that I'm only planning on riding around the local City and surrounding Suburbs (Newcastle) and not planning on hitting any Highways (L's only having 80 Speed Limit here in NSW) for a LONG time. Many Pre-Learners and/or Training sessions are also run on a 125 (most I have come across actually have 125 CRUISERS) and many, MANY instructors say that while a 250 is better in MOST situations: if you learn on a 125, TRUELY learn (i.e. carrying speeds through corners and learning the basics) you will generally be a better Rider in the long run. It was explained to me like this: the longer you ride a particular bike at IT'S absolute limits, the more the fundamental Riding Skills come into play (i.e. you learn what inputs you can minimise, for maximum effect) to get better times and/or feel of the road or bike.

    It's also just about getting me on the road, it's just a first step: I'm not planning on staying on a 125 through my Riding life, so, keeping that in mind, please put forward your opinions on each of these bikes! (Would LOVE some opinions from Owners of the particular models... that are out here already)

    CF MOTO Leader 150: $2200 (roughly) 150cc, Liquid Cooled Engine, 13.4-ish BHP: A Chinese Bike, yes: but one that is only sold through Licensed Dealers, with full 12 month (as opposed to the 3 months some other Chinese companies offer) Factory Warrenty. I've had my eye on this model for a while now, is going strong over in WA, from some reports: reliability has been surprisingly good, according to quite a few of the owners there.

    Yamaha YZF-R15: $4500 (roughly) 150cc, 14-ish BHP, Liquid Cooled: It's a Yamaha, sure: But made in India?!? I've gotten mixed reviews about this one: very light, noppy: the fastest Bike of the three here, but the reliability has been an issue for many: I don't know if this is because people are flogging the crap outta them, and not maintaining or what: but somehow it just doesn't LOOK right, imo, either.

    Honda CB125e: $2500(roughly) 125cc, 10.5ish BHP, Air Cooled: This bike isn't out here in Aus yet, and it is kinda hard to get info about this one: but, from what I can gather, it's made in Brazil, has the typical Honda Reliability/Bulletproof Engine, though it has both the lowest Power and Torque of all 3 bikes: it's supposedly coming out for the same price as the Leader, and being an Air cooled, I'm (taking a wild Guess) hoping easier Maintenance.

    I'm Leaning towards the Honda: reliability is gonna be a big thing, as I am going to be trying to keep whatever I get as a Spare Back-up and/or Commuter, and would rather have something that there for longer Cruisers, and having something else to just get on and go. I will have to wait a month or two though, to get my hands on one. The CF Moto is Cheaper, and here now, i could go pick up, instead of just making a Deposit on the R15, which I am considering as it DOES have the highest performance, though (arguably) the least reliability.

    Anyways: thats where I am up to at this point, hope I've not bored you too much, and have a safe and Happy 2012! (Get as much fun in as you can before the 21st of December though!!)
    • Like Like x 1
  2. I wouldn't necessarily be expecting the legendary Honda reliability and build quality on a bike made in Brazil, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong too....
  3. Congrats on getting your L's.
    Remember with the CF MOTO Leader 150 you are likely to get poor resale value. You might lose 50%. Hyosung was sold through retailers too but early ones still had issues.
    I'm not sure on most Pre-L courses using 125's - around here they are 250.

    I've ridden around Newie for a few years on a 250 Trail Bike - and driven for many, many more. Sure that bike wasn't suited to the road but I wouldn't go for less.
    Newie isn't the flattest of places and there are plenty of places close by you might want to explore (without needing to hit a main freeway) that I think would benefit from more than a 125 can offer.
    Think about heading up the Bay, around the lake, up to Sugarloaf or even some of the hillier parts of Newie and I'd be asking for more.
    You *can* get good deals on a 2nd hand 250 or higher. Your choice - others will probably chime in.
    What is your height and weight btw?
  4. There is no replacement for displacement!

    Seriously put your money into a cheaper second hand 250 with third party insurance. As much as i appreciate the fact that you wont do much highway riding. Your going to be bored of these bikes in a matter of days.

    If you want to stay in the tiny displacement category get a CT110. They can be picked up for about 700 ish each at auction and at that price you can buy four of them to solve any reliability issues :p
  5. Appreciate the thoughts: I am gonna be sticking to a low power: I'm about 5"10 and 95kg: I know I am gonna get bored: but I am not a people person, so will NOT be getting a good deal on a second hand 250, for which I have NO mechanical Knowledge to know what to look out for; I don't know any Mechanically minded people, let alone soeone who rides bike that I would be able to get an Opinion on... there's just too many (pitiful) reasons why I'm going for these bikes: but the main is: I need to save up to get a bigger/better bike, and this is better then sitting around doing nothing: at the VERY least, it's gonna get me to save more, faster, because I get "bored".

    I appreciate the wanting more power, and I KNOW I am gonna feel the same: but, I just can't bring myself to get on a Postie: I want something with a clutch, lol

    Sure, I might be able to find a decent 250 (or even better) for the same price; but I'm just as likely to end up with a Lemon! For sheer peace of mind, I have gone with new bikes: and the difference THEN between 125 and 250 stretches into the months: I am fairly certain being on ANY bike for 3 - 4 months is better then being on none at all!

    Not to mention the fact that at the moment, I have NO transport: the logistics of finding a good deal, getting there, finding out whether or not the person who selling has been honest throughout the transaction process... Going to a dealer, getting a Brand new is just a way to avoid a lot of the issues that are in the way of FINDING those good deals.

    As someone recommended in another thread of mine: if my choice in bike is not good enough: how about you buy me one that is pleasing enough for you?

    Please try to keep this on topic: I am trying to get opinions from people that actually have PERSONAL experience with these bikes: literally MILLIONS have been sold around the world: the 125cc Class out sold ANY other class by a MILE in the UK last year, and have done so for quite a few years now. SOMETHING has to be going for them: maybe the upgrades in Technology has brought the 125's up enough in power to maintain basic commuting needs? Surely there has been improvements to make the class viable if it has been so Successful; I daresay there are those dreaded Hills abound in many places apart from Newcastle and Australia in General: I mean, I've never been there, but I hear many tales of a faraway place called the ALPS!

    Basically, what it comes down to is the fact I can get on the road in a Month for one of these (at the very latest) or save up for another 3 to 4 months: at the MOST; getting one of these little things is gonna set me back (getting the bigger bike) roughly 2 months.... So, at the worse, I be on it for 6 months: 6 month on a 125 is better then waiting 3 or 4, then jumping on a 250, first thing, SURELY? I ask you: if these were your 2 options could YOU sit around, doing nothing but playing games for the extra 3 to 4 months?
  6. While I can't speak from personal experience consider these things:

    The CF will have poor resale, questionable long term parts supply, poor resale and poor resale. It may also be unreliable. After all its cheap and Chinese, ok separately but not so good in combination.

    The Yamaha you don't like the look of and you have to look at it EVERY day. Think on that.

    The Honda. I wouldn't worry about it being made in Brazil they (Brazil) make plenty of decent stuff there. I've used Taurus firearms and frankly you have to trust their metallurgy to do that !

    Personally I;d say choose between the Yammie and Honda. Whichever floats your boat.
    Then when you DO eventually upgrade, you can keep the 125 as a track bike - ie to learn the basics of track riding on the cheap !
  7. I understand how you feel about the postie bike, I used to feel that way, too. But for the type of riding you've mentioned the postie should be fine, they have a proven track record of being indestructible, oodles of used parts can be had cheaply within Australia (which will be an issue if you get any of those 3 bikes), if your financial situation improves you have fun can modding it, you could easily get one on the road within your budget.

    Don't worry about how you're gonna look on the postie bike. You are not going to look like any more of a tool on the postie than those 3 bikes, in fact you're gonna look *way cooler* on the postie. Actually I don't know what the new CB125E looks like, if you can link me a picture to it (not the old one which btw looks pretty cool) that would be great. Parts might be an issue though. You will be much safer as far as parts go with the Honda CT110 (postie bike).

    FFS, why am I writing all this drivel;
    TL;DR version: Get a used postie bike.
  8. Pics! THe Honda CB125e:


    Umm... I can't figure out the whole pics thing, lol: but there are some pics in that link, along with some basic specs... hope it works for ya!

    I definatly prefer the look of it: but it is VERY similar to the CF Moto, which isn't nessacerily a bad thing

    Testing the Add attachment thingy 8-[

    Attached Files:

  9. Sorry in advance for going off topic....are there many people on here from your area? If you ask nicely one of them might help you deal with a 2nd hand seller. I bought a new bike too hoping it would be more reliable but plenty of people offered to go 2nd hand bike shopping with me. You're saying here that you wont do much highway riding but in your other thread you are planning on going around Australia on your L's. Get the 250!

    PS - Blue is always nicer :)
  10. The whole round Aus on L thing might of been a little optimistic: the hassles from going from one state to the other is difficult enough doing on P's, from the sounds.

    I am not sure how many people from here are from Newcastle, although a few newbies seem to of popped up around same time as me. Another reason I have sorta leaned away from Second hand is the fact that I ended up spending ALL day, searching through adverts and such, and NOTHING else was getting done! Having decided on new, though cheap, it seems to of gotten me to relax a little more, helping with the waiting. Not to mention the fact that, even second hand: $2500 isn't going to get you much: as in 10+ year old, and 10's of thousands of KM's. I HAVE to assume that something newer would be better, in the long run (maybe not so much the CF Moto, lol)

    Hell, I've seen 15+ year old models, 90,000km's and their STILL wanting 3500+... sorry, but even if it is PURELY to stay away from the crazily over-inflated Second hand Market, a 125 works out better for me in too many ways to dismiss. FAR to often, even with my limited knowledge on the subject: the second-hand market is more about people ripping off others, because of the lack of knowledge in Newbies, more then anything else....
  11. Any chance of waiting until you've saved up an extra $500? Seems to open the door to a lot of bikes. For example... http://www.bikesales.com.au/all-bik...30 1429 1626 1428 4294967259 682 80&silo=1400

    I've only had my bike for 2.5 months. I wouldn't want anything smaller than it. In fact I think I would have shot myself in the head yesterday if I was on anything smaller and I'm smaller and weigh less than you.
  12. $500 would only take another 2 - 4 weeks... but yes... yes that is too long, at this point, lol

    I have even considered a bloody Postie, at this point, but I'm really wanting something with a Clutch: I don't kow why...it's just something I have stuck in my head.

    While I am not looking forward to being frustrated and/or bored: I just don't think I can handle doing... well, NOTHING anymore... at least if I'm bored with the 125, it's cheap enough to flog the crap out of, and throw onto a Rubbish Tip as revenge!
  13. Have patience. I needed to wait 6 weeks for my bike to get in the country. So glad I did.
  14. I can appreciate the points you make and certainly can appreciate the appeal of a clutch.

    'I am gonna be sticking to a low power: I'm about 5"10 and 95kg'

    My first bike had 33 hp. three times the power that you have quoted in yours. I spent 1100 dollars on my bike from auction. I was bored within a week. (check out auction houses for cheap repo bikes)

    'I have NO mechanical Knowledge to know what to look out for'

    Motorbikes in the smaller categories are extremely simple I can also make the promise that no person on this forum was 'born with it". I like everyone else here learnt by doing. These days the quality of the how to articles on the web are amazing. some of the model specific forums even state what size spanner you would need for each bolt.

    'the 125cc Class out sold ANY other class by a MILE in the UK last year'

    This includes scooters - most of which don't have a clutch. Scooters are not differentiated against motorbikes in most instances.

    Of the motorcycles that are sold in the small engine category most are traded in at a dealer less than two years later. Most people get nothing and i mean NOTHING for them when they shop at a dealer. therefore they attempt to sell them private. Use this when your shopping around.

    Also have you factored in money for helmet, gloves, pants, jacket ect?
  15. I've already bought Helmet, and Gloves: Jacket Boots and Pants are being arranged :D

    About the Auctions: I can't really find any info about them online: Finding one, and then actually GETTING to one of them might be a touch difficult for me: I ONLY have Public transport to get around at this point... is one of the main reasons I am thinking a 125 will have to do, at this point.

    About the sales: the CBR125R from Honda was the highest selling Bike, not really sure how it relates to Scooters though (if they were included in same count)

    The whole get NOTHING thing is interesting... but, then again, I guess people would rather throw things into the bin, rather then give a good deal: You can buy a BRAND NEW CBR125R for $4000, minus ORC... yet on Bikes sales, your lucky to find a 2007 model for less then $3000: There's no way I'd be paying that close to retail price for a second hand, and yet no-one seems willing to drop to even $2000, let alone 1500!

    Meh, I just CBF'd dealing with rip-off merchants: even if I get nothing else fro it, $2500 or so will be worth getting off the Busses, and onto the roads :D
  16. I can completely understand not dealing with rip off merchants. But dealers dont have an amazing reputation.

    keep an eye out in your area for garages with static bikes in them.

    I get the feeling that at this point your buying a new 125 regardless. Ive never paid more than 1100 for a bike and 2k for a car. None have ever broken down and basic maintenance is all I've needed to do.

    This was my find from last year. Bike was registered and on road for about 700 bucks. granted i did a days worth of mechanical work on it. but even if you took it to a shop the bill would probably been in the 1200 ish dollar range.


    This bike was given to me free of charge. only cost me to get it home.

    This was my find from last year. Bike was registered and on road for about 700 bucks. granted i did a days worth of mechanical work on it. but even if you took it to a shop the bill would probably been in the 1200 ish dollar range.


    Now running. front braided lines, new pads and rotors, front fork seals. Just waiting to take it to the track now.

    I can understand the want to get off the bus. All im trying to say is that there are better deals to be had than what your looking at.
  17. Those links see to be to the same thing, in case your wanting to fix it up.

    They look like bloody good deals: Just not too confident I'll be able to find anything even CLOSE to that.

    I just can't justify to myself paying %75 of Purchase price, for something that is 10+ years old, and WELL over half the "recommended" life of the Engine. I'd LOVE to find a half decent 250 for $2000 or so; in Dealers, you get laughed at, private sales... well, they are ALWAYS wanting more then the bike is actually worth: In 4 weeks or so of looking out for deals: I've only had 2 that even looked CLOSE to being a reasonale price, and both were sold within hours; and ended up being MORE then the asking price.

    Then there the resale... Most people justify the cost of buying second hand in the resale, when your bored of it: I can tell you now; if I am having a hard time BUYING, I am fairly certain I would be even more pitiful when it comes to selling: I'll be losing money on BOTH sides of the sales: At least with a Dealer/New bike, you know where you stand from the beggining... out the back, behind the bins, lol
  18. I know you might think the 125 is better, hear me out.

    The chinese/thai/brazilian (' third world' bikes) are seriously limited in some ways which will prevent you learning everything you can on LAMS. For a second bike or commuter they make sense as the insurance/rego and other running costs are so low. But there are a few reasons why a second hand 250 (in my opinion) will be a much better option. I thought a cbr125 would be fine (didn't end up purchasing) but am glad I got a 250.

    You are 95kg and most people move ABOVE 250s at this weight. I think a 125 will be very, very slow. I know you say you aren't a speedster but neither am I but there are definitely situations on the road where you need to be assertive and a 125 with a 95kg rider won't allow this. They were really not built with Australian conditions in mind, rather those previously mentioned countries and the UK due to license laws. In z australia with much longer distances and higher speed limits you may find it's really out of it's element.a 250 provides you with better brakes, suspension and engine for not much more and I really think you should consider them. Test ride them back-to-back and honestly evaluate both. If you still think the 125 is enough go for it. Plenty still get around on them - it can still easily be done.

    Another thing though with buying the 125,.especially new is you will.suffer extreme depreciation while with a second hand 250 you can often sell them for the same price you bought it - the inflated 250 market works both ways. If you save up an extra grand you will probably save another when it comes to sell.

    Either way, you'll really enjoy the 2 wheeled world. Good luck with purchase!
  19. +1 to this

    You might not think this is important now, but you will once you have been on the road a few times. Best safety advice I use on a bike is to be in front of everyone else.
  20. There seems to be two parts to your thinking. The first point is that you want a 125. Just make sure you seriously consider the advice of people on here that have actually been in EXACTLY the same position as you. However, as I said it sounds like you have made up your mind. So go for it! If it is what you want then get it. You are the one that that has to pay, maintain and ride it, so it is your decision.

    I got a new GSX650F(LAMS) for my L's and am certainly glad I did. There are times when you need a little grunt to get out of a fix. Just one reason why I think tiny scooters are the most dangerous (and silly) things on the planet. I think 250s are way too small and if you are over 5'5" or 70Kg you will look ridiculous on it. So don't even ask me about 125....

    The second point is that your want to get a brand new bike. I completely agree with you there. I have only owned one second hand car, 14 years ago on my L's. I have only bought brand new cars and bike since then. Sure they cost a little more, but in this situation you get what you pay for (after a little research at least). I have upgraded my car and bike approximately every 3 years and lost maybe 30% on average, on each of them. In that time however I have NEVER had major cost or time off the road apart from general servicing. In my opinion that peice of mind is worth EVERY cent of the new purchase price. I have far better things to do with my time than hunt down bargains and do repair jobs on vehicles (I know others feel differently). It's just that I'd come out on top, (financially and mentally) going to work and paying someone to do the repairs or mods...

    Suffice to say that everyone's situation is different, some of the advice here may not be applicable, just consider it all carefully before making your decision, then stand by it.

    For what it's worth, I'd go with the Honda, closely followed by the Yama. Regardless of where they're made, they will have to have decent build quality to wear those badges. Chinese/Korean etc....don't even consider them. Spend the cash and get something that is superior in all apsects, including image.