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Older (modified) vs Newer (Stock... ish) Supersports

Discussion in 'Bike Reviews, Questions and Suggestions' at netrider.net.au started by Grrila, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Hi Guys,

    This may be a stupid question and may possibly belong in the stupid questions thread but I'll give it a go here.

    I have found what could be a great looking bike. 04 ZX10r with ohlins springs front and back with stock shocks as far as I can tell, PC3 and ignition controller, quickshifter for up shifts and GP style pipe, other bits and pieces of bling, owner claims 180hp for the bike... Not sure how true that would be, but I'm sure it's got more than enough for me.. The bike appears to be in great nick, cared for but is touching on just under 50,000km's.

    Or spending an extra 1-2k would you go for a 2008 and up CBR1000rr with higher k's again, with pipe and power commander, stock everything else?

    Reason I ask is, would the newer chassis designs make up for the upgrades on the ZX10r? I know the CBR1000rr's got excellent right ups for the 08-09 and topped all the comparisons until the s1000rr came out. I also have the feeling considering Honda haven't really changed the bike in almost 7 years that they must have been onto a good thing.



    So what do the resident netraidiens think? What would you go for? Low k CBR1000's are kind of out of reach of my budget, trying to keep it under $8k if I can. I also would like to find one with a few mods already done as I have already gone down the modding track with cars and realise how much money you lose at change over time. I'm also partial to this vintage of zx10r cause they do sound hell exciting. Still yet to ride an 04-05 though. Ridden a current gen zx10r and thought it was great as well but I realise it would be a completely different beast and possibly a more civilised one at that.
     
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  2. What $$ are we talking and what's the intended usage. Some older bikes are classics - so if the usage is just bike enthusiast enjoying the golden era of pre-electronic everything, then great. Some were okay for the era, 04 crim obv a classic, but for book performance are not comparable to current gen bikes, regardless of how many aftermarket clear indicator fluid upgrades have been aborted on them. Comes down the $$ and what you are willing to compromise on for the intended usage. Don't forget that gen honda had a thirst for oil. Lastly why looking at a sportsbike with km that high? Likelihood of bad things prev owners have done to it, or things going to expire in future only increases.
     
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  3. Trying to keep the purchase price under $8k. The bike will only be a toy hence trying to keep $$ down as it's not an essential item or piece of transport.
    The bike will just be a fair weather hill rider with a track day thrown in maybe 2-4 times a year.
    As for K's of course looking for lower k's is the better option but that is all I'm finding around that vintage and price at this point in time.
    I understand that bling won't make any performance difference but in the case of this zx10r are you saying the ohlins upgrades, quickshifter and power upgrades still wouldn't hold up against or better a current gen bike? Genuine question, sorry if it seems silly. If that is the case I would much prefer a stock newer bike over one that has been modified just for ease of maintenance and issue free riding.
    PS I'm aware of the oil burn issue in the CBR's but if the bike has some decent k's clocked up you would expect that it would be one of the lucky ones? Maybe? Definitely would get the bikes looked over by shop for any possible maintenance issues or neglect.
     
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  4. Not a silly question at all, and there's a million ways to answer it, its all subjective unless you do back to back bike compare and contrasts. Ohlins springs are prob eibach who also make racetech springs, really makes no difference except more accurately & incrementally rated than say stock but springs are springs, its the quality of the damper unit where you'll perceive the benefit. All it means is that potentially the previous owner attempted to spring the bike properly for themselves rather than what the factory thought, so thats great but something you should consider yourself on any bike, even a 2nd hander you buy esp if you are hitting the track. Expect them to be off unless the rider is within a few kg of your (geared up) weight. I'd assume nothing about the oil burn & longevity issue, a mechanic may not pick it up either as it's a med-long term thing, not something that can observed in the moment unless there's traces/residual evidence elsewhere. In principle I agree some mods make more sense to buy factored in 2nd hand, but unless you know the competency or intent of the person who installed them, and depending on how picky you are with things being correct on your bike, there is a fair risk you will have to redo some or all of what they've done and suddenly the value for money proposition of buying these things and paying the premium is very questionable indeed. I'd buy a newer FI bike myself, perhaps a more maligned bike such as the 08-10 zx10 from someone who's addressed the issues it had, but still makes it a bike nobody wants that would make it cheaper. Just a thought anyway.
     
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  5. Fantastic info, kind of stuff and thoughts I was chasing. I've come from a background of modifying cars and I hear you about getting all the niggly stuff sorted out. Even on my own cars I was never quite happy with some of the mod choices I made at the time and had to redo a few things... frustrating!
    I was hoping to get something pre done and you bring up a very good point about bikes with aftermarket suspension bits. Did not account that they would be set up for the rider. I thought there would be some adjustibility to it but springs are pretty much set and the shocks are stock so if the guy is not similar to my weight its pretty much a dud mod for me.
     
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  6. Depends if they are similar weight you'll be ok. Honestly for the road there's no need for perfection, close enough by one or 2 rate increments is probably good enough. There's a few rate calculators on racetech and penske sites you can use to estimate required rates for diff bikes. Ask the buyer, they should have the info, then you can compare results to it if thats important to you. And as you'd know suspension set up for the track or racing is going to be really unpleasant for general road riding. Dunno mate, don't mean to be a downer but every bike and choice is compromised in some way, nothing is good at everything, generally bikes with less compromises are newer and more expensive, so it comes down to which compromise you are most comfortable with if you're on a budget. G'luck.
     
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  7. And leaving aside the technical for a moment, what is your current bike and are your skills up for riding either of these guided missiles?? Just looking after your welfare, is all.....
     
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  8. No probs Hornet. Currently ride a z750 and have been riding for around 4 years. I have done 3 track days, a few advanced riding courses hosted by Champions Ride Days, Teammotto and ProHonda.

    Would I be able to ride these bikes to their full capacity... not on your life. What I do want though is a keeper of a bike. Something that I can continue to grow with. My last two bikes inclusive of the Z were for learning purposes. What I am looking for now is for something that's got a bit more character than the two wheeled equivalent of a Camry that I'm riding right now. Don't get me wrong, the z750 is a nice bike and has done me well but I feel like I want something a bit more exciting and flickable through the twisty stuff.
     
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  9. Thought from your sig there was method in your madness. Sorry I forgot this old chestnut, 2005/6 gsxr1000, a well performing sportsbike, comfortable streetbike, lazy power & a strong engine (mechanically) ensuring limited hassles and maximum smiles. Only concern might be things affecting older bikes in general, e.g. electricals, mistreatment from heavy wheelie landings, clumsy clutchless upshifts etc. There's a few on bikesales under 30K on the clock under 8k listed, less with haggles of course e.g. http://www.bikesales.com.au/private...Suzuki]&Model=[GSX-R1000]))&pso=0&pss=Premium
    I think a solid bike in that price range and era.
     
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  10. 2c worth here, I've built and raced cars in the past, been riding bikes since before I was in school, bought and sold many vehicles.

    Newer generation bike would be a better bike in my opinion, provided it has had regular decent maintenance. The amount of research dollars and improvements made over 2 or 3 generations on a model is huge. Not always just performance improvements, but maintenance improvements like replacing a weaker part of some component because of common failure, better engineered cam follow for example blah blah.. never mind handling and chassis dynamics.
    Better engineered and manufactured components, better design and handling dynamics.

    Pricing/Cost:
    On the second hand market add-ons shouldn't really be factored into the price, bike is valued on year, mileage and condition, that is the book price. Factoring in the bargaining based on the sellers situation.
    Be weary of people trying to pump price because of mods, this is the same for cars, boats etc. Easy enough to show the seller a bunch of gumtree/bikesales ads for the same type of bike and average price.

    Resale/trade-in value is better with a newer model bike, a dealer will not give a shit about what mods are on it, they will go on book value, and so should you.

    Older bike will mean more things to replace during the time you own it, bearings and things like that that are not done during the normal servicing that takes place during the first 24K KM life of a bike.

    Mods+Risk:
    People customise bikes to suit them, those mods may not suit you, i.e suspension setup talked about before.
    You may not need or want that specific mod or customisation.
    You also NEVER know how the bike was tinkered with and how it was done, there is more risk involved in buying second hand modded bikes, unless you know the person well or the shop that did the work.

    A stock bike should be cheaper and a better base for you to make it into the bike you want, knowing that it hasn't been f#@ked with, you can put the parts on that make sense for YOU and your preference.
    A stock bike that is SETUP correctly for YOU is a better bike than one with mods customised for someone else.

    All of that is fairly useful/useless either way, bottom of the line when you look at that bike or think about it, you must want to get on and ride it immediately, if you have to clean the chain, pull the back wheel off and replace a sprocket and do the oil, then you need to want to have to do it so that you can go ride!

    Go with your gut, you will get more enjoyment out of a bike that you have that attitude towards.
     
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  11. I would bargain hard on the CBR then you can upgrade the suspension as well. That's a seven year old Superbike now.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Or better idea. Look for a low km 2007 cbr1000rr. Last of the under seat pipe. A well refined machine. Typical excellent Honda build quality. Not too many issues and won't burn oil like 90% of the 08 models (they didn't really fix the issue until around 2010)
     
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  13. unnamed (30).
    Better looking bike than the same year gsxr1000 and zx10r. Performance wise not much in it between them either.
     
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  14. best year CBR EVAAAA
     
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  15. I haven't got a lot of hands on experience with superbikes but wasn't the CBR considered the pudgier "boring" one of the big 4? Is there much difference between the 04-07 models in the way of improvements?
     
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  16. It's no heavier than any of the other 3. And power is about middle of the lot. It's considered 'boring' because as per any Honda it's refined and well constructed
     
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