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Obama's legacy, what does it mean for the future?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Deadsy, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. #1 Deadsy, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013

    Some of you will argue that such surveillance is necessary in order to keep us safe. Some of you will argue it is an unnecessary invasion of privacy. The most significant thing is that many of us, I think, will not be surprised that this has, and will continue to be happening. We've known it was happening. But this is a good opportunity to discuss the issue. Because it should be discussed! It needs to be.



    During Bush's presidency there was plenty of outrage over his policies. I feel that during Obama's time in office the public reaction has not reached the same level of outrage. The opposition and resistance doesn't seem to be as vocal. This forum is a good example. Are motorcyclists really this indifferent to such political and social issues that no one has posted a thread on these leaks, even though the news has been circulating for days now? Or is this a broader issue, in that we have all, as a society, become accustomed to this sort of information and we have grown apathetic to such releases of information?

    The argument that people do not care about such erosions of privacy because they wish to feel safer isn't good enough, in my opinion. It isn't based on a solid premise. Who says it will make you safer? Would you still trade your privacy if the government couldn't accomplish what you were told it would in return?


    SBS aired a program last night that asks similar questions. America's intelligence and counterterrorism efforts seem to have become an industry worth hundreds of billions. What have they achieved and do they work? The program spends most of its attention on uncovering what it can on this highly secretive area of government, but importantly it also briefly highlights how a number of recent terrorist attacks have relied on civilians to stop them or catch the perpetrators. Every day people in the right place at the right/wrong time. Not a multi-billion dollar industry that increasingly relies on private firms. It is relevant to this discussion. You can watch it here:http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/31403587879/Top-Secret-America-Boston-Bombings

    And we have to touch on Obama's use of drones. I am mainly focusing on the surveillance story because that is the breakiing news atm. Drone attacks are another, important part of "Obama's legacy". Feel free to post more info and expand on this, everyone.

    The sorts of issues all these things bring up go beyond just Obama and the government power. People's opinion on Obama and what he represents to them, people's biases and partisan politics create the dangerous situation in which provide blind support. This is nothing new, it may not even be anything particularly new to liberal supporters, but perhaps it explains why there is less opposition. And how does this shape the future? The following article discusses this here:


    For me, the most disturbing question to come from all this is, if Obama, the man hailed as one who will bring about change and do away with everything people disliked about the Bush administration, if he can take over and instead take the largely unseen, secretive elements of this "war" and expand them so much, while applying them how he and the government sees fit, and if he can do it without much opposition because of the way he is regarded, what does the future hold? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    It's fitting to finish off with these words from Nobel Committee when they gave Obama the peace prize in 2009, which today seem like some sort of sarcastic joke: "Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population."
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Ogden, is that you?
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. "It's a universal truth in governance that a government's power can only grow; it can never shrink. Once power is owned, it is never released. Governments don't shrink; they either grow, or topple."
    -quote from osnews.com article on the subject.

    As for Obama, it is naive to expect him to be drastically different from any other politician. At the end of the day, he is just another product of the same system that produced Bush. Although he might be the only person ever given Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than just not being Bush :)
  4. #4 Dr Who, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
    G'day everyone,...

    Obama's legacy eh,...?
    Rick Perry says Obama's goal is to "disarm the American public".

    A report from the NRA Annual Meeting by Emily Miller of The Washington Times.

    Gov. Rick Perry sat back in shock when I told him President Obama told Mexicans that an upside of his efforts to infringe the Second Amendment would be to make them safer. The Texas Republican, a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association (NRA), pushed back his chair and thought before speaking.


    “The idea that a United States president would go to Mexico and make that statement is incredulous,” the 2012 president candidate told me in an interview after his rousing speech at the NRA annual meeting in Houston Friday. “His goal — well before he became president of the United States — was to try to disarm the American public. He just disregards the Constitution.

    Read it all.

    And if you didn't know about it,
    while visiting the other Soros-financed president for life (in Mexico) President For Life Barack Hussein Obama (PBUH) did indeed offer the following.........

    Obama holds a gun to Israel’s head ; Israel agrees to cease fire.

    Muslims simply practice taqiyya and keep shooting.
    Raise your hands if you trust the Obama administration or Muslims for even a nanosecond.
    Well…… I’m waiting.
    Anybody ?
    Buehler ?…… Buehler ?
    Israel was alone before the ‘fun’ started and she’s still alone.
    #HeilObama didn’t ‘speak’ to PM Netanyahu.
    El Guapo gave an order.
    The Jihadist At 1600™ said the following: Cease fire right now and no ground operations or all aid and any support is gone in a flash, then whatever happens to Israel isn’t of concern and if you try to attack Gaza again, I just might give the order to stop you.
    Don’t doubt me.
    What needs to happen: Level Gaza
    All of it.
    Leave not one square foot anywhere in Gaza standing higher than a person could hide behind.
    If it doesn’t move, paint it……. If it moves, shoot it, then paint it.
    The Muslims are not going to stop until every Jew is dead.
    It’s their ‘religion’ – It’s in their ‘holy books’ – Qur’an, Sira, Haddith.
    Oh yeah…… Not that it matters a whit to anyone not directly affected, but the typical Muslims in Lebanon are now firing into Israel.

    What we've all known since day one of the #HeilObama administration.

    They're listening to anyone - a n y o n e - they deem a threat...... not to our nation, but to them.

    FBI investigators for at least five years have routinely used a sophisticated cellphone tracking tool that can pinpoint callers’ locations and listen to their conversations — all without getting a warrant for it, a federal court was told this week.

    The use of the “Stingray,” as the tool is called, “is a very common practice” by federal investigators, Justice Department attorneys told the U.S. District Court for Arizona Thursday, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

    Installed in an unmarked van, Stingray mimics a cellphone tower, so it can pinpoint the precise location of any mobile device in range and intercept conversations and data, said Linda Lye, staff attorney at the ACLU of Northern California in a blog post about the case.

    Oh Yes They Will

    Here is another example for those who think US troops will never fire on US citizens for saying "But, the Constitution says _____". Just one example of many.

    West Point center cites dangers of ‘far right’ in U.S.

    The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right.”

    The center — part of the institution where men and women are molded into Army officers...

    It says anti-federalists “espouse strong convictions regarding the federal government, believing it to be corrupt and tyrannical, with a natural tendency to intrude on individuals’ civil and constitutional rights. Finally, they support civil activism, individual freedoms, and self government. Extremists in the anti-federalist movement direct most their violence against the federal government and its proxies in law enforcement.”

    The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.

    The report says there were 350 “attacks initiated by far-right groups/individuals” in 2011.

    Yeah, we all remember those. I mean, hell, that's almost one every day. OK, so there was...uh, no. Well, there was...uh, no. OK, how about....uh, no.
    I do remember something about a bunch of rifles going to Mexico.

    I wonder how they define something as a far-right terrorist attack.

    Details about what makes an attack a “far right” action are not clear in the report, which was written by Arie Perliger, who directs the center’s terrorism studies and teaches social sciences at West Point.
    Ahhh, OK. We just made it up.
    "We" being the study group, which is this one guy.

    Depends on your definition of who and what is "a threat to national security"

    The White House

    Office of the Press Secretary
    For Immediate Release
    November 21, 2012

    Presidential Memorandum --
    National Insider Threat Policy and Minimum Standards for Executive Branch Insider Threat Programs


    SUBJECT: National Insider Threat Policy and Minimum Standards for Executive Branch Insider Threat Programs

    This Presidential Memorandum transmits the National Insider Threat Policy and Minimum Standards for Executive Branch Insider Threat Programs (Minimum Standards) to provide direction and guidance to promote the development of effective insider threat programs within departments and agencies to deter, detect, and mitigate actions by employees who may represent a threat to national security. These threats encompass potential espionage, violent acts against the Government or the Nation, and unauthorized disclosure of classified information, including the vast amounts of classified data available on interconnected United States Government computer networks and systems.

    The Minimum Standards provide departments and agencies with the minimum elements necessary to establish effective insider threat programs. These elements include the capability to gather, integrate, and centrally analyze and respond to key threat-related information; monitor employee use of classified networks; provide the workforce with insider threat awareness training; and protect the civil liberties and privacy of all personnel.

    The resulting insider threat capabilities will strengthen the protection of classified information across the executive branch and reinforce our defenses against both adversaries and insiders who misuse their access and endanger our national security.

    Yes, it definitely depends on your definition of who and what is "a threat to national security".

    But I'm sure the administration means well.

    Dr Who?
  5. In the mean time you can read Jennifer Government to live out your fantasy.
  6. G'day everyone,.....

    By the stroke of a pen.

    United States Presidents issue Executive Orders to help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government itself.

    Executive Orders have the full force of law, since issuances are typically made in pursuance of certain Acts of Congress, some of which specifically delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation), or are believed to take authority from a power granted directly to the Executive by the Constitution.

    However, these perceived justifications cited by Presidents when authoring Executive Orders have come under criticism for exceeding executive authority; at various times throughout U.S. history, challenges to the legal validity or justification for an order have resulted in legal proceedings.

    In all candor, we knew what was coming from El Guapo and the Totalitarians long before they nudged their way through all legal and other constitutional and other legal barriers.
    But before we begin, there is something that needs to be said and again, this will be in all candor.

    Through his 8 years in office, President George W. Bush and his administration issued and he signed 291 executive orders.

    As of this posting date, El Guapo and the Totalitarians are currently on pace to top that number by about 9 or 10.

    Not bad.

    Not good, but not bad.

    However, there’s ‘a bit’ of difference in what’s been affected by and overall scope of executive orders by El Guapo and the Totalitarians vs George W. Bush’s administration's offerings.

    Executive orders issued by Teh Eeeeevil President George W. Booooooooooosh and his administration were apparently not of a constitutional-bypassing and rights-destroying nature. (His signing-into-effect of the highly dangerous Patriot Act legislation is an entirely different matter.)

    In contrast, almost every executive order signed by El Guapo runs 180 degrees opposite of individual rights, overall freedom, our national sovereignty and what America’s Constitution allows.

    But since you’re what’s known as “awake” and not a "Low-Information Voter", I don’t think I needed to mention that ‘a bit’ part to you.

    So then, on we go.

    The following embedded link (blue text) is to a White House website page dedicated to listing Executive Orders issued by President-For-Life Barack Hussein Obama (PBUH).

    As of this initial posting, the listing below represents the officially published and in-effect Executive Orders issued by President-For-Life Barack Hussein Obama (PBUH).

    All Executive Orders issued after this initial posting will be cataloged within this thread-posting as 'comments'. Those future Executive Orders deemed to be of a mortally-perilous-to-America-and-freedom nature will also be given their own separate thread-postings here at The American Survival Guide.

    Note 1: There may be a few Executive Orders 'missing' in the enumerated order. They exist, but are apparently "classified" due to "national security" issues and status. Given the nature of the current administration's operational takedown of America, it is unquestionably debatable as to the contents of said 'missing' Executive Orders, regarding the 'targets' of such "classified" matters.

    Note 2: The titles of the listed Executive Orders are in a dialect known as 'Double-Plus-Good'. Please take that into consideration when perusing the items at hand. The text of each Executive Order is written using the same dialect. It may require some researching of your own to decipher individual items that pique your interest.

    Note 3: Some of the Executive Order titles (and text bodies) are published in a language other than English, but still employ 'Double-Plus-Good'. Required for translation are the following items: DuctTape™, sponges, medically-sterile sewing kit with other first-aid material and at least one full case of your favorite high-proof adult beverage.

    Note 4: There are many Executive Orders listed below with their own thread-postings here at TASG. Please use the "search" function above to view those.

    Again, the link to see each Executive Order individually is here.

    Dr Who?
  7. So he lied to get elected, and kept the worst of his lies for his second term?

    He's a politician, what did you expect?
  8. G'day everyone,....

    Securing elections in perpetuity.




    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

    Section 1. Amendment to Executive Order 13639. Section 2 of Executive Order 13639 of March 28, 2013 (Establishment of the Presidential Commission on Election Administration), is amended by striking subsection 2(a) in its entirety and inserting in lieu thereof the following:

    "(a) The Commission shall be composed of not more than ten members appointed by the President. The members shall be drawn from among distinguished individuals with knowledge about or experience in the administration of State or local elections, as well as representatives of successful customer service-oriented businesses, and any other individuals with knowledge or experience determined by the President to be of value to the Commission."

    Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

    (i) the authority granted by law to a department, agency, or the head thereof; or

    (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

    (b) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.


    (c) This order is fully intended to secure an in-perpetuity term for the currently-seated Executive Branch.

    (d) Nudge.

    The DHS report was prepared by its Office For Civil Rights And Civil Liberties.

    What report ?

    The ACLU, National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and other groups have sued to stop the practice, saying that it violates First and Fourth Amendment rights.

    What report ?

    What practice ?

    Since his election, President Barack Obama has taken an expansive view of legal authorities in the name of national security, asserting that he can order the deaths of U.S. citizens abroad who are suspected of terrorism without involvement by courts, investigate reporters as criminals and — in this case — read and copy the contents of computers carried by U.S. travelers without a good reason to suspect wrongdoing.

    Lets' re-write the above paragraph to describe the effective-on-day-one (1/20/2009) #HeilObama administration operational policy:

    Since becoming blatantly obvious that the elections in 2008 and 2012 were completely and thoroughly rigged and stolen, President for Life Barack Hussein Obama (PBUH) and his entire administration have usurped all legal authority in the name of "national security", asserting that anyone in the administration can order the deaths of U.S. citizens who are suspected of supporting and defending The Constitution and visibly displaying patriotism without involvement by courts, investigate Fox News, The Associated Press and other reporters and entire media entities who are seeking the actual truth as criminals, along with reading and copying the contents at any time of all electronic devices owned and/or possessed by U.S. citizens.


    im·plo·sion -- imm ploh shun

    A violent inward collapse.

    Two links for your perusal:

    The Associated Press has finally awoken to the real Obama administration.

    "Violating sacred rules of our democracy."

    Congressman Darrell Issa lays out some of what's going on with the IRS madness and the Obama administration's murderous deal in Benghazi.......

    Dr Who?
  9. American conspiracy-theory mumbo-jumbo, does anyone really care?
  10. G'day everyone,....

    Congressman Darrell Issa responds to comments by a lying Totalitarian son of a..........

    And remember: Of course the Democrats would..... It's their S.O.P.

    Seems as if Reuters has had just about enough of their hero.

    Reuters Global Editor, Sir Harold Evans:

    Wanna bet Reuters offices all over the planet are also experiencing "phone problems" and other niceties of Totalitarianism like personal 10-year-in-review tax audits and probably even direct threats ?

    Know what's making me chuckle a bit through all this ?

    All those "it can't happen here" people........ It's happening to them.

    And I have zero sympathy for all of 'em.

    They were warned their own side was not going to play nice and any level of dissent and/or not completely toeing the line would be met with 'it can't happen here' stomping down like a giant foot on their skulls.


    How big of a wake-up call are the Obama scandals, especially the ones surrounding the seizing of phone records from the Associated Press and the IRS's targeting of conservatives? So big that two of the media's most shameful and shameless gun control advocates -- Joe Scarborough and Piers Morgan -- have finally conceded that arguments made by pro-Second Amendment activists against the expanding of background checks might not be so ridiculous.
    In a roundtable discussion on Friday's "Morning Joe," Scarborough said that because of the IRS scandal, “My argument is less persuasive today because of these scandals.” He added: "People say, ‘Hey, if they do this with the IRS, asking people what books you read, then how can I trust them with information about my Second Amendment rights?’”

    Also courtesy of NRO, here is no-less than Piers Morgan conceding he was wrong to ridicule gun-rights activists (including our own Ben Shapiro) for making the argument that a legitimate fear of government tyranny is what makes the Second Amendment so crucial:

    "Though I was appalled by the media's relentless and shameless push last month to pass the Toomey-Manchin bill that would have tightened background checks, I did support its passage, and said so many times while criticizing the media for their disgusting behavior. But this chilling reminder of how corrupt the federal government is has changed my mind completely."

    Two video clips from earlier this morning (19 May 2013).

    The man's name is Dan Pfeiffer.

    He's one of El Guapo's senior advisers.

    "The law is irrelevant"

    "It's an irrelevant fact"

    One Obama acolyte talks with another Obama acolyte.

    Lays it out there for the Low-Information Voter to hear in all it's glory.

    Maybe one or two words will sink into their few remaining brain cells.

    The interviewee: Mr. Gary Pruitt, CEO and corporate president of The Associated Press.

    The interviewer: Mr. Bob 'Democrats Can Do No Wrong' Schieffer, host of "Face The Nation" on CBS.

    It's now remotely possible that the Associated Press boss may have finally kinda sorta realized the madness he and his organization shilled for and continues to side with since Christ was a corporal.


    One can only 'hope for change', eh ?

    Dr Who?
  11. I was going to reply, but why bother?
  12. #12 Deadsy, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
    This thread isn'tabout Obama and whether you love him or hate him, it is about specific policies and their potential consequences down the track. I specifically chose the title I did, and not "Obama sucks!", for this reason. We are not discussing a politician who promised to build a highway and failed to deliver. The main issues of concern, which I tried to outline, include:

    * State surveillance of citizens on a massive, industrial scale where information is collected on anyone not just targets of investigations.

    * A growing, super secretive Intelligence-Industrial complex in which the government outsources intelligence and security related tasks to profit driven private contractors.

    * Presidentially authorised assassinations, through the use of drones, of US citizens whereby a person can be exectuted without trial. The use of drones to kill people in general.

    * The apathetic attitude toward these things and/or blind support to the point where people will reverse their position on a policy because of the person implementing it.
  13. I understand the reason for the thread, but where is the one about the chairman of the Chinese communist party, or the prime minister of Papua New Guinea, and any number of other heads of state who make the us president, whoever he might be, look like an angel by comparison? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    Obama has one unique advantage over all the other power-crazed us residents before him. You daren't say anything against him in the us or you will incur the wrath of the reverse racist lobby....
  14. Well now, that simply isn't true - plenty of people had plenty to say against him, you might remember his re-election was anything but a shoe-in.
  15. The United States of America is still the unmatched global superpower and it pursues its interests around the world under the banner of freedom, liberty and democracy. I am a citizen of a state which is allied to the United States and as an ally Australia supports the actions of the United States. Therefore issues related to the United States may have a direct or indirect impact on me in some way. They are certainly "done in my name".

    Every thread I don't make regarding any other state leader is not an endorsement of that leader. I guess that because of the things I have stated above, because of geopolitics, and because of the nature of what the United States openly says it stands for as opposed to what it secretly does in reality, something like this is of more concern to me.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Whole thread = TL;DR
  17. Hornet, you were right. :oops:

  18. It's not so bad if you ignore the Tea Party bollocks.
  19. I am disappoint.(n)
  20. The USA is hypocritical though because what they purport to defend is exactly what they are abusing.
    • Agree Agree x 1