Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

[NZ] WRB - Motorcyclist's horrific death brings call to ban

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by jdkarmch, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. From NZ:


    So? Where do we go from here? According to Vic Roads there is "no proof" that there is any justification to get rid of these things......

  2. I think we'll need at least 10 more deaths before they do anything, fcukwits.
  3. Sadly, it's a numbers game.

    If it saves 1 car from crossing the median strip and ploughing into oncoming traffic then it's seen as a good thing with at least (possibly) 2 lives saved.

    With the amount of cars that are on the roads V bikes, their argument will always be, "they save more lives than they take"
  4. Unfortunately what it'll probably take to get WRBs removed is some kid riding pillion being cut in half by one. The general public don't really give a f*&k about riders being killed but a child being killed is something I'm sure the media would leap on.
    Edit: That or we wait until a celebrity is killed by one.
  5. Or that they'll target motorcycling in general to shore up "they're dangerous and should be banned" claims...
  6. Anything said by Allan Kirk should be taken with a grain of salt (seriously).

    The guy has demonstrated in the past that he can be an unreliable source of information when it comes to motorcycle safety issues.

    It's not that his heart isn't in the right place, it's just that his head isn't.

    nb... nothing in the above should be taken to assume that I approve of wire rope barriers, because I don't, but remember... even a broken clock is right twice a day :wink:
  7. Perhaps you could elaborate on this for those who aren't familiar with Kirk. Otherwise, people will be taking what you're saying about the guy at face value.
  8. That comment about it not making much difference between WRB and armcoves is horseshit. If they'd seriously looked into it they would realise that there are trials being conducted into motorcycle friendly(er :roll: ) barriers. Things like the added barrier at ground level that they have installed as a trial on the Old Road in Sydney. And if I remember correctly VicRoads was trialing a 7km section of a new barrier system that had some sort of rubber bounce bar on the bottom.

    Despite all this, I can see why they are legislating for the masses. But they need to pay some attention to the catastrophic effects these things can have. The incident on the M4 a year ago illustrated that - the guy was thrown from the bike after hitting an obstacle that came off a ute and hit the WRB at speed. Chopped his head clean off.

    If you apply a risk management application to the use of WRB you need to way up all of the likelihoods and consequences of as many possibilities as possible. In the case of a car hitting a WRB, the likelihood is high due to the predominance of cars, and the consequence of the WRB will be to minimise the damage to person so the outcome of these two is a low to minimal overall risk for that situation. Then look at the case of a motorcyclist doing the same. Likelihood is much lower due to being a minority road user, but the consequence is catastrophic - minimal + catastrophic would equal a high risk overall. The powers that be then need to make a decision on what sort of risk they are willing to accept. High is normally unacceptable. So you need to treat that risk by making modifications to either the likelihood or consequence eg. rubber bump bars to reduce the consequences so that the overall risk becomes low. This is how it is done in aviation and is an accepted form of risk mitigation. The big problem is getting motorcycles factored into these considerations and ensuring that added risk is not accepted in order to save 5%.
  9. I seem to remember a video a while back of a small car (Toyota Echo I think) hitting a WRB - and it' didn't do too well either. Given that the number of small cars on the road, and motorcycles/scooters, is steadily increasing with higher fuel prices I don't really see how they could justify WRBs as "legislating for the masses" either.
  10. Good point on the bottom of armco on the Old Rd - as a high concentration of bikes travel that road.

    So has there been any progress made to a cover for WRB's? They have plastic barriers filled with water for constriction sites, surely an injection moulding for them to slip over WRB's and be secured underneath via countersunk bolts would not cost that much and still let them do their intended task :?
  11. Remember that they don't give a stuff about the vehicle. It is all about bringing the vehicle to a stop under control while preventing it from totally departing the road - whether that be into oncoming traffic or off a cliff. The occupants are the only thing that matters.
  12. There have also been decapitations in accidents not involving WRB's, it doesn't take much for it to happen.

    The original article doesn't say what the rider could've hit if the WRB wasn't there and could've ended up into oncoming traffic.

    I agree that WRB's & guard railing should be replaced by concrete walls where possible as you don't see too many concrete walls being damaged by cars or trucks hitting them which although costing more to install reduces future maintenance costs significantly. They also need to look at more run under prevention for guard railing & WRB's.
  13. Yeah but given how far the cables were able to cut into an Echo the safety of the occupants could be an issue, especially with a very small/light car designed for European/Japanese cities (ie one of those Smart things). And these are the sorts of vehicles I reckon are going to be making up a lot of what's on the road in 10-15 years time.
  14. Interesting comments so far.

    But, I return to my original question - Where do we go from here?

    That rider on the M4 - I never heard about that one. Also there was one in Tas a few years ago. Also there was on in Melbourne a year or so ago. But, we never get to hear the report from the police etc.

    Should we be demanding that these accident reports be made public and grouped together to paint some sort of picture?

    So far we have had a few incidents - in different states and in different countries - but nobody has drawn any links.....

    Its time to stop talking about it, time to stop accepting its inevitability - its time to come up with something, an argument - which we can put up to the respective Govt's to start the progressive removal or installation of covers/impact attenuators where ever WRB are installed.
  15. Late night raids with an angle grinder? :-w :bolt:
  16. Ridiculous as this may sound - that is certainly one option.

    But not one that I would ever want to be seen to encourage.... :wink:
  17. I can't post a link because of the 'unknown rider down' rule, but can anybody tell me if there is any WRB in McMillans Rd in Darwin's northern suburbs? There might possibly have been another one last night.
  18. Probably didn't get raised much as it subsequently turned out that the bike was stolen. I think the owner of the bike wrote a letter to the editor of two wheels about it that was published. So it seemed the the WRB issue was drowned out in the motorcycling community by the arguing over "serves him right" against "still not a good thing". And trying to use this as en example outside of the motorcycling won't get up as soon as it is revealed he was a criminal(putting aside the fact he hadn't been caught and convicted) - that will just fit right into the image of motorcyclists being lawless and not deserving a say.
  19. But was the WRB damaged at all in that incident???

    Coz I think the best way to go about removing the WRBs is to launch thieves into them until they are knocked over.
  20. Coroner findings and hearings are open to the public and I'm pretty sure as an interested party you can ask to be notified when the inquiry to certain types of deaths are being investigated and heard in court.