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[NSW] What is it about the ALP in this place...

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by cejay, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. I've only been here since 1996, so I could well be wrong, but what is it about the ALP that it believes that it can hand over power to whomever the factions think they can control without asking the electorate?

    In NSW, Carr handed over to Iemma. Iemma was ousted by Nathan Rees and now Rees is about to be rolled by another MP.

    In Victoria, the previously unelectable Brumby was anointed by Bracks, shortly after his last election win.

    Go to QLD and Beattie decided to hand over to Bligh, again, with no prior announcement or indication that he would do so.

    Tasmania had a slightly different process, with the very ill Bacon handing over to Lennon, who resigned and handed over to Bartlett and then Butler.

    Along the West, Gallop also resigned due to ill health and passed to Alan Carpenter.

    In the NT, Clare Martin resigned and handed over to Henderson.

    So what is it about the ALP that it believes that it can hand power around like gifts?
  2. Depends how much of a figure-head position the 'leader' of the party is - especially in the ALP the power has always been factional, traditionally with trade union and more 'extreme left' influence. As such it hasn't ever really mattered who the public face of the party is, the shots are called in the back-room by the 'power-brokers' that we as voters rarely see or hear about.

    The issue I have with it is that politics is now becoming very 'personality' based - following the american trend. It's what's working for KRudd and why he has to be personally involved in every stupid little detail (including the NSW labour party, I was amused to hear today...) and take credit for absolutely everything. It's now all about the leader come election time, not even so much the party any more, let alone the local MP.

    I do agree with you that it's a bit of a worry given that we are led to vote for a particular personality, when they may not be the person who ends up seeing out the term in that position.

    In NSW case I find it astonishing that the state and the labour party can be so messed up and STILL the libs can't win an election.
  3. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
  4. I don't think it's specifically the ALP. It just seems to be the way the system is set up. I've no doubt the other side would do exactly the same should the need/opportunity arise. It's just that since 1996 (when I arrived too) Coalition state governments have been in either terminal decline or non-existent so we haven't had much chance to see it.

    As for NSW, I'd put it down to a government too long in power and faced with a, frankly, pathetic opposition, a point that I hope the Federal parties are both taking note of. I'm very glad I'm not a NSW voter 'cos I'd probably have to vote informal in state elections, which is a terrible waste of a right that people have died for me to have. Not that the choices in WA are a whole lot better right now.
  5. Kristina Keneally will become the first female Premier of NSW after ousting Nathan Rees in a leadership challenge.

    Ms Keneally is from the Labor Party’s Right faction and was chosen earlier tonight as its candidate to challenge Mr Rees in the vote on the leadership.

    After the vote, she thanked her colleagues for the opportunity to serve the people of NSW and said that she would have more to say at a press conference at 9pm tonight.

    The Right faction met about 4.30pm to decide who would challenge Mr Rees. This was followed by a full caucus meeting for a vote on the premiership. A spill motion for the leadership was carried 43 - 25; Ms Keneally won the vote for the top job 47 - 21.

    Ms Keneally, who had replaced Frank Sartor as the Planning Minister, is perceived as being close to the MP powerbrokers Joe Tripodi and Eddie Obeid.

    A push by Mr Sartor to challenge Mr Rees for the top job was rejected.

    Earlier, Ms Keneally walked out of the Right caucus flanked by female MPs Tanya Gadiel, Angela D'Amore, Karyn Paluzzano and others, refusing to respond to questions about the outcome.

    After the Right's meeting, Mr Sartor said he would serve out the rest of the term in Parliament.

    "I think it's important we resolve the matter and I'm looking forward to a more peaceful Christmas than I might have otherwise had," he said.

    The Right caucus's returning officer Amanda Fazio refused last night to reveal the margin of Ms Keneally's win over Mr Sartor to either reporters or MPs.

    This morning, Mr Rees held a press conference vowing to fight for his leadership.

    He attacked those who had been undermining his leadership and called them a "malign and disloyal group".

    "Should I not be Premier by the end of this day, let there be no doubt in the community’s mind that any challenger will be a puppet to Eddie Obeid and Joe Tripodi," Mr Rees said.

    Mr Rees said today that any attempt on his leadership was "handing control of the state to Eddie Obeid and Joe Tripodi".

    Ms Keneally was born and raised in Ohio in the United States.

    A furious Mr Rees hit back at the "treachery and disloyalty" in the caucus in a blistering address to the media.

    The situation today led to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd telling NSW "to get your act together".

    NSW Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell urged the embattled Mr Rees to force an early election.

    Last Saturday’s Herald/Nielsen poll showed the Premier had not achieved a bounce from his decision to sack Mr Tripodi and to ban developer donations.

  6. And the media will not question how NSW can be on their 3rd premier decided behind closed doors. Democracy at work.

    This last week, the papers have been absolutely fixated on the shenanigans of the federal opposition. But the current government of the largest state is not subjected to the same scrutiny?
  7. the day I heard the Joe Tripodi had been sacked was one of the best days of my life. and to find a couple weeks later that our new premier is Tripodi's puppet was definitely the scat after the high.

    You kind of expect the opposition to cycle through a few leaders before they find someone they can put their weight behind, but to have the party in government do that just goes to show how pitiful NSW LP really is.
  8. This is the Westminster system, you do not elect a leader you elect your local member. A group of elected representatives form a government if they have the numbers and elect a leader from amongst their ranks. Don't act surprised about it.
  9. i really dislike this women. its not because swhe's half seppo or a woman. more because she is utterly unqualified and a puppet of tripodi et al....

    i hope they get severely spanked come 2011...big time
  10. No, really? And there was me, UK born and bred and I didn't know that!

    Or is it that the reality, that although we elect a local member, we are mainly interested in the person who makes the decisions and most people, whether we use the Westminster system or something else, believe that's the Premier.

    I doubt whether most electors actually know who their local member is, let alone know what they look like, how they vote or what they stand for. In fact, whilst our electoral system is all about the local member, the party whip ensures that they vote as a block, regardless of what they make think personally. So although you say you vote for a local MP, you are voting for the party. And the party had, as its head, a leader, someone who is supposed to be a figurehead, develop policy and present this to the electorate. To elect one person (Carr for instance) who you believed you knew and then have him hand over to someone you didn't and then potentially take a totally different policy direction is a corruption of the system.

    The fact that someone like Bracks can go to an election, win it and then literally months later resign and appoint the previously unelectable Brumby is a disgrace. It's even worse as the reason for the resignation was to spend more time with his family. He then took a role as a special advisor to the President of Timor Leste, then led the federal governments investigation into the automotive industry and gawd knows what other high paying, time hungry positions. And we fell for it!!!!
  11. The problem in NSW at the moment, is that the labour backroom powerbrokers don't believe they can win the next election as they are that much on the nose to the voters. So rather than try and fix the state and do good by the voters which is there only chance, they are already trying to control the power and position themselves to still be in charge when in opposition, they have no interest in the voters orthe state, they are so far removed from the real world all that matters to them is there personal kingdoms and turf within the party.
    The only solution i can see to it is a simple law change requiring a election be held any time a party choses to change the premier of a state, with a clause for ill health being the exception, this would stop all the plotting and changing, a on the nose government would be loathe to change leader if it meant actually facing the voters
  12. so do i, but look what happened at the last election... and whats the name of the current opposition leader? I got no idea...

    How Iemma managed to win that election is a mystery. He was a joke at best. that last idiot was just as bad if not worse. God knows what damage this woman will do. But when the opposition doesnt even bother to run for parliament, who knows what will happen.
  13. I'm going to be a real snob, but probably because the people who care are ABC and SBS viewers. Watching and listening to the ABC this evening, they asked Barry O'Farrell questions about liberal factional politics. They didn't ask him about how disgraceful it is that the ALP have foisted the voters of NSW with their third unelected premier or how NSW, after a decade of unbelievable wealth has a growing debt and decrepit public services.

    And later, the bulletin seemed to focus on how NSW has their first female premier. Then they asked O'Farrell about if he feared going against an all female team...! WTF has that got to do with anything?

    And here in QLD the voters are asking the same questions. How can a government, in power for years, suddenly work out that the budget is rooted and then submit legislation to sell public assets, depriving the electorate of the ability to have made a different choice in their vote for the election held only a month or so before. If that is not corrupt, deceitful politics I don't know what is....hang on, did someone say 'Eastlink'?
  14. If we still had our guns...
  15. i head through the city a lot and have seen a lot of these pollies in person.

    i swear the next time i see joe tripodi i will tell him it's no great loss if he falls under a bus.
  16. I support Labor, but a lot of these problems would be solved if there was a truly credible Coalition opposition at all levels in Australia at the moment. The federal Liberal farce of the past couple of weeks, the infighting and nonsense in the newly merged LNP in Queensland and so on... part of the reason Labor premiers are handing over is because they're there for a long time, and most of the reason they're there for a long time (since I concede they're by no means doing a great job) is just that the opposition is perceived as even less credible.

    It'd be nice in some ways to think that Australia as a whole has moved to the left, making it harder for the right to get into power, but I think it's been more just a case of selfishness and infighting within the Liberal and National parties recently.
  17. The new NSW Number-plate slogan should be "NSW-The State of Despair" :(.

    The only uniform aspect of NSW politics, whoever is in power, seems to be corruption and power-struggles.
  18. As a comparison - The Australian Democrat Party was the first 'Direct Democracy' party as opposed to the Representative Democracy of the major parties.

    I agree with Bravus that it is the fault of both sides of government - ALP for botching up pretty much anything that crosses their desks and the Libs/Nationals for not adequately pointing out said botchups and offering reasonable alternatives. This is across all states.

    I vote independent on the state level - that way the local area gets proper representation that isn't subject to towing some irrelevant party line.
  19. Something that I've noticed is that state governments in general exhibit the sort of incompetence and corruption you'd expect of local councils. Unfortunately, unlike local councils, they have powers that actually matter to the average bod.

    It's a good argument for ditching them as a layer of government but I'm conflicted on the issue because I'm a devolutionist at heart.
  20. :) Nevertheless it is the system, I didn't say it was a good one. To quote one of your original countrymen.

    No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.