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nsw p test question - can i pass without being able to uturn?

Discussion in 'New Riders and Riding Tips' started by daedalus, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. i have a kawasaki gpx250. its really hard to uturn within 2 carspaces (6.1m)

    however, when reading the MOST test booklet, although it says i will lose points if i go over the line (i.e turning circle wider than 6.1m in diameter), i am allowed to lose up to 8 points before failing

    the other components seem really easy. i am thinking i dont need to know how to uturn cause i can just lose 1-2 points in that component and still pass

    am i correct in thinking this?
  2. Er, no. Just learn to do it would be my recommendation.

    Are you leaning the opposite way to the turn, are you confident enough to give the steering full lock?
  3. As said, no. If you can't do a component at all (cone weave, u-turn etc) it's an automatic fail.

    Practice, practice, practice. You should be able to u-turn in under 5m if you practice enough. It's not on the test for nothing, being able to do a tight, quick u-turn is a skill all riders need.
  4. If you measure out the 6.1m's, it is approximately 2 1/2 car spaces, and on a gpx250, it should be quite easy.

    As the others said, keep practising, start parallel and close to the first starting edge of the u-turn, and turn from there.

    You will have to atleast attempt to do the component of the test, but if you happen to not complete the turn by cutting the last line by a fraction, and lose a point doing so, and have mastered the other components, you will pass....
  5. Plenty of videos on Youtube on how to make the bike do a REALLY tight U-turn.

    It's in the test criteria because the RTA wants to make bikers look cool. There is nothing less cool than a rider on top of some polished-chrome Cruiser, a sleek supersportsbike or a rugged adventure bike having to duckwalk their bike awkwardly through a 3-point turn.

    Especially when on a road with a steep crown, where they have to push 200+kg of motorcycle uphill to "reverse".

    The RTA wants you to look cool.

    It's not too hard to do a U-turn within 6.1 metres (the width of a "standard" two-lane road).

    The trick to a really tight U-turn is:
    * "Counter lean" on the bike - Shift your weight to the outside of the turn so that the bike leans further into the turn. The more the bike leans, the tighter its turning circle, because of various things to do with the rake of the forks and other technical stuff.
    * Keep the steering at full lock. This way you're turning as tight as the bike can possibly turn.
    * Maintain balance by controlling your speed. Feather the throttle and drag the rear brake. If the bike is "falling into the turn", increase speed by releasing the rear brake and maybe accelerating a little more. If the bike is "standing up" or falling out of the turn, brake a bit more.

    Not too hard. Just takes practice. :)
  6. btw, its 5 points if you cross a line. What I am unsure about is whether you can cross completely with 5 points or if it is by per wheel.

    Either way, go to a car park and practise. or hire a bike.
  7. When I did MOST at HART St Ives, we practised using the "old U-turn box" which is less than 5m and I could do that on my GS50FK9 without problem. Doing it in the 6.1m box is really quite easy once you've practice your counter-leaning.
  8. i couldnt do it. i didnt try too hard on the actual test because i had practiced heaps and couldnt reliably get it right, so i just took the 5 points and aced all the other tests. and its 5 points per line you cross not per wheel :)

    you need 8 or less points to pass, keep that in mind, you dont have to get a perfect 0
  9. thats good advice everyone. i will practice some more, and watch videos on youtube and properly measure out 6.1m

    a couple more questions:

    1. Would it help if i removed the fairings from my bike (kawasaki gpx250)?

    2. If I were to hire a bike what should i look for to make it the easiest? small as possible? eg Honda CT110 (postie bike) or Honda CBR125?

  10. Removing the fairings won't help; steering lock is determined by where the engineers put the steering stops on your bike. Admittedly those steering stops are usually installed with the fairings in mind, but removal of the fairings doesn't address the root cause. :)

    Very roughly speaking, upright-seating 'standard' bikes like the CB250, etc, have a lot of steering available and consequentially a smaller turning circle. Usually, full-on race-replica bikes have the worst turning circle, but they can and do still pass. Just takes more finesse.

    Edit: I should add, I'm pretty sure Sydney has a learners meet every week where you can meet fellow learners and practice aspects of the MOST such as slow-riding and U-turns.
  11. Good one, grange.

    I'd just like to add that its not just a 'turn' that you're trying to negotiate your way out of doing here. Its skills that will help you and others survive on the road. For example:

    Balance - you use your balance more at some times than others on a motorbike. Low speed turning is one of the times you use it more. If you cannot balance properly in a controlled area with no pressure from other road users, what do you think will happen when you're confronted by impatient drivers? Yeah, you'll mess up. Maybe even drop your bike. Now that'd suck.

    Body positioning - this is essential for finer turning and balance. Without this skill highspeed cornering will be a nightmare, and you won't feel confident on many windy roads due to simply not being able to control the bike effectively.

    Throttle/clutch/brake coordination - huge skill. Huge. Must have. Without it you'll mess up gear changes, brake erratically, and generally impart risk to both yourself and those around you. Mainly you, though. Low speed, high speed, whatever - learn to use the three (throttle/brake/clutch) in sync with each other to help you control the bike.

    As for the points you'll lose? I wouldn't want to be losing 5 in one hit. Every (10~20cm?) you are over in the emergency brake test loses you 2 points. Most people I've seen go over at least a little bit, I lost 2 points that way myself. Easy way to fail the test if you're already on 5 points for messing the turn. Add in a failed headcheck and you're toast.

    Now don't think I'm ragging on you, putting you down - I want you to pass your test and go out and enjoy motorcycling. All you've got to do is practice the test, and that turn you're having trouble with. Take some chalk and a measure and mark out a box if you want, see if that helps. Try and take notice of what works and what doesn't, and pretty soon you'll be acing it every time.

    Good luck mate - boingk
  12. Well said boingk!...This stuff is an imperative if you want to ride a bike as well as can be ridden.
    It does take time to develope the skills, but they are fundimental for concise and clear control.

    I would emphasize the use of rear brake when practicing, at any low/low speeds. You can balance the throttle against the brake for excellent control. Set throttle, then control speed with the rear brake (NO FRONT BRAKE).

  13. After exasperated attempts at doing a U turn (i manged to do it sometimes, but could not really put my finger on what I was doing different.. other than it just felt right! Derrr!!) - I have just done many succesful U turns this morning at a practice session doing the following:

    - Slow start, very little throttle.
    - Back off throttle on entering the turn area.
    - Just before reaching the back of the turn area, hard lock on right.
    - As soon as you start the turn, look the point where you need to be (eg: the end of the turn).
    - Don't falter from the full lock (if you do over steer, just touch you foot down - I previously got stuck in a habit of steering out over the line).

    I used a little breaking just before entering the turn area and didn't use any breaking at all during the turn.

  14. My advice would be just learn to do the u-turn.

    Come to Homebush as grange posted above. It's worth it.
  15. thanks for the replies!

    i measured out 6.1 m and it is actually almost 2.5 carspaces, i can do it half the times now. with more practice i am sure i can do it 99% of the time

    unfortunately i cant make it to homebush on Tuesdays as i will still be working and its a bit far :p
  16. I could only do the U turn test half the time on my gsf250v (similar looking to a hornet) it seemed to barely touch the line even if it was held full lock all the way round lol

    Everybody else was on dirtbikes for the P test when I went, the tests were dead easy to pass on these and I felt really worried when I rocked up on the only roadbike out of 2 groups doing the P test lols

    On the plus side the instructor nearly ignored the dirtriders who were blitzing everything easily in practice, and concentrated on helping me with tips etc. I could only do the U turn test 50% of the time even after coaching! but thank god I managed to pull it off when it counted (I did try a few practice U turns on a borrowed dirtbike while there, and had no troubles with room to spare on these)

    I was told that If I put my foot down in any test I would lose points
  17. deleted double post due firefox jamming
  18. I just passed the test on an XVS650A (look it up). Don't tell me "wah I can't turn" until you've tried it on this bike.

    And as previously posted:

    1) Practice (lock the steering and counter lean)
    2) You can afford to lose some points if you ace the other easier parts of the test.

    So I touched the line and lost 5 points (out of possible 8) but the practice I did meant that I aced the cone weave and the left-turn. Found out afterwards that a foot down is only 1 point, so in hindsight I should have leant harder and risked planting a foot for the best score.
  19. guys, i have some bad news

    today a car turned in front of me causing me to crash. luckily i am not severely injured, just a bruised ankle (full gear all the way!)

    my bike is still ridable but without a front right indicator as it is smashed. Other things damaged, windscreen cracked, fairing cracked, mudguard cracked, muffler scratched

    unfortunately my Ps test is this weekend!! tomorrow i will have to try and fix the indicator.

    I got 2 questions

    1. if i fix the indicator will the RTA accept my bike as roadworthy? i.e do the scratches and cracked windscreen matter?

    2. Can i just turn up on the day and rent a bike from the testing company? i called them up but there is no answer because they are outside their office hours. I also called the RTA and they dont have an answer

    thanks guys!