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[NSW] Law changes proposed in NZ - we need your help

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by kiwi00man, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. Greetings from across the ditch. Over here in New Zealand there are major motorcycle law changes being proposed. One part is that our current 250 cc limit for Learners and Restricted (P plate I think you call it) licenses will be scrapped and probably replaced with the NSW approved list (660 cc maximum). No time is given when the law will take effect but it will be sometime between the end of this year and 2010.

    Over on the KiwiBiker forum we are discussing just how the cops could tell if a bike has been dethrottled / derestricted, and the ability of a bikie to derestrict their bike themselves. I cannot yet post URL's but if you want to have a look at our forum go to: www kiwibiker co nz (put in the dots)

    What can you tell us about how the [NSW] law works in practice? Did you have a 250 cc limit at one time? Do bikies derestrict their bikes and get away with it? Do cops check if L and P plate bikes are approved? Do most newbies buy big bikes or do some still ride 250 cc and smaller?

  2. if a bike comes from the factory with less than 150kW/tonne power to weight ratio (assuming a 90kg rider in the mix) the bike goes on the legal list.

    A small note gets added to your registration tag that the bike is learner approved.

    There is no DIY restriction scheme, so that DR650 is ok, the GSXR600 is not. Ours is quite different to the UK 33hp restriction.
  3. What I meant is if bike owners derestrict their bikes - is this being done in NSW? I understand that if a bike is restricted, it is done by a dealer, an approved mechanic, and this information is entered into the registration for that bike. It seems to us that a lot of owners would DErestrict their bikes so they go faster and I wonder if you have found this to be the case? The cops could not tell if the bike has been derestricted, right?
  4. there are precisely 2 bikes i'm aware of that come as factory limited - the ducati 600 monster (620i lite or something) and a whoflung 650 thing (in cruiser, naked and faired version, but they are all effectively the same bike).

    Every other bike on the list is just how it came from the factory - ie less than 150kW/tonne.

    you can't derestrict something that isn't restricted in the first place. DIY restriction doesn't exist here - from factory or nothing.

    For one of the factory bikes, if you want to do it, you'll probably need parts and time that make it difficult. There are various ways of doing it from ECU trickery for the injected bikes to carb restrictor plates or just plain different carbs. Yes it could probably be done, and no, someone probably wouldn't notice, but your insurance company likely will if you call on them. If you do get it done, then the dealer sends paperwork to the registration body telling them that it has been done.

    Statistically, it is likely to be less of a problem than people riding outside their restrictions anyway.
  5. OK thanks for that. I thought the restrictions were done in Australia, by dealers/mechanics.

    Do you and other bikies in Australia think the NSW law is good, that is, does it reduce accidents and improve safety? It seems to me that for a newbie to ride a 650 is more dangerous than (most) 250's.

    Any comments about the NSW law would be of interest to us Kiwis, so that we know what to expect here.
  6. I think the power to weight thing is much better than people learning on peaky 2smoke 250's, as is still done in victoria. Number of accidents doesn't rate a mention, but it does mean there are a greater number of bikes to choose from, especially for the bigger/heavier people. The suzuki GS500 for instance is popular, and slower than some of the 250's. There are now lots more big trailies (in natural and motard) form as well as older ducati's and bmw's with learner plates now.
  7. De-restircting a Monster takes a minute or two and a Phillips screwdriver; the 'restriction' is a physical limiter on the throttle cable. And this 'fix' is very obvious; if a Policeman saw a supposeldy restricted Monster hooning around, and checked, he would find that the bike has been illegally modified and act accordingly.

    The Hyosung restriction is a restrictive carbie jet kit. Changing this is also easy, and cheap, but a lot more diffiuclt to detect. Once again, however, if a Policeman had reason to suspect that the bike HAD been modified beyond its LAMS sepcifications, he could check.

    Then, of course, when you come to sell a bike which is a LAMS bike and has been modified, pink slip issues and roadworthiness/legality become a major issue...
  8. Any idea how do the English do it? They will supposedly let you run a 33hp 'busa in some license configurations. I imagine you'd have to branch out a little to stop you getting a bike with low power just because it only revs to 1800rpm.
  9. UK have restricted carb/FI kits.
  10. Yeah. For the race-replica enthusiasts you're still stuck with the 250RRRRRRRRRRRR bikes, and the RVF400 which is rubbing its balls up against the power/weight ratio limit. High revs * low maximum torque = lots of power.

    For the cruiser and tourer enthusiasts, it opens a few opportunities for "lazy" bikes which aren't crippled by the 2.4kg-cm of torque most 250cc bikes put out. Low revs * low maximum torque = very, very little power. LAMS is for these guys. :)

    I agree that the 250cc limit in Vic is a bit silly, when there are peaky, snap-your-neck-in-an-instant 70+hp 2-strokes available. In fact, if you wanted to push the 'spirit' of the law a bit, the Marine Turbine Technologies Y2k Superbike (the one with the 320hp gas turbine) would technically-speaking be considered Learner Legal in Victoria. Yes. Really. :p

    (Edit: Corrected torque units to kg-cm instead of kg/cm. Silly me.)
  11. I think 99.9% of riders drop their first bike within a month of their riding career.
    So, I'm in favour of buying something older and 2nd hand rather than brand new to learn on.

    That said, bigger bikes are more stable, handle better, are made better, and have better brakes - as far as accidents related PURELY to too much acceleration in a short space of time, bigger bikes are safer than smaller ones, IMO.

    Oh, and on the restricted vs derestricted thing: it's the same as riding outside your license conditions. Yes, some people get away with it, but the check and balance is that their insurance company won't bail them out if their bike's been improperly derestricted - if they hit a Ferrari :arrow: they're screwed financially :eek:
  12. The following sums up the NZ Changes...

    It appears that at present a 15 year old can go out and legally ride a 'busa or Fireblade with no experience at all... :shock:

  13. ive got a mate with a learner approved restricted hyosung 650 that he derestricted and another mate with a 620 monster he derestricted.i think the hyosung you re-jett & the monster has a throttle stop of some sort. so you just register them restricted then take it off..
  14. Yes, as long as its a maximum of 250 cc its OK. Is this the same as in Victoria?
  15. Well, dunno about big bikes being made better, handling better and with better brakes (compared to their weight), but good point about the insurance company not covering them if the bike is derestricted.

    Tony E - Thanks for posting the proposed NZ law changes.
  16. Did NSW have a 250 cc limit?

    How long has NSW had the current law (approved bikes up to 660cc)?

    Did NSW have a 250 cc limit before that? If so, what happened to the 250cc sales market when the limit was scrapped? In NZ we think prices will drop, especially for the likes of 18 year old Bandits and Spadas that now sell for about $3900.
  17. I insiste you go and ride a 1000cc bike as soon as possible then, mate! :)
  18. Re: Did NSW have a 250 cc limit?

    NSW has been on LAMS forrrrrr... at least three, maybe four years now I think? Prior to that it was up to 250cc and no more than 150kW/tonne. So the same power/weight limits, but only 260cc.

    I think the 250 market's still doing alright, though not as overinflated as Victoria's $7500 20-year-old 250-race-replica-built-from-five-individual-bikes private import market. As I mentioned above, if you want to get a high-revving race replica in NSW or the other LAMS states/territories in Australia, there's really only the 250RR bikes and the Honda RVF400, so people who want a Race Replica are still stuck with the 250s anyway.

    I still see lots of GPX250s, ZZR250s, VTR250s, CBR250RRRrRRrRrs despite things like the GS500 being available.

    Victoria is presently "Ride anything that's less than 260cc!", but is looking to bring in LAMS in the near future.
  19. Re: Did NSW have a 250 cc limit?

    That should be enough time to show if the accident rate has dropped.
    Anyone know?

    With the cost of petrol going up and up and up, the price of 250's may not go down as much as some in NZ think - at least for economical 250's
    (I get 80 mpg on my Hyo).
  20. Re: Did NSW have a 250 cc limit?

    Nah the prices will be fine, ignoring the old 70's bikes, most of the LAMS bikes are a bit more expensive than a 250, so people with limited budgets still go for the 250s. And I wish my 250 did 80mpg, my '00 Bandit only gtes 51mpg. Though that's probably indicative of my riding style than the bike's innate economy.