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[NSW] Booked for negligent driving

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' at netrider.net.au started by theiceman, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. G'day All.

    I Dropped the bike two months ago, on a sh1tty piece of dirt road in the bush. Because I couldn't get normal phone reception to call mates, wife etc. for help I ended up having to ring 000 to get an ambulance to hospital (000 refused to ring wife for me). When I get to hospital they take a blood sample and now that sample although negative means that the cops are able to book me with negligent driving. 324 Freakin' bucks. Apparently the simple fact that I came off the bike is proof of negligence. Two questions; 1) Is this the lowest act a cop can pull? and 2) are there any legal eagles out there that can throw some light on negligent driving legislation?

    UPDATE: Court case is tomorrow and I haven't even been able to get a copy of my statement to police or copy of their brief. WTF are our taxes paying for? Can I make a claim for negligent coppering? :roll:
  2. Yep mate some of these coppers are just motherf*ckers. They'll sniff around a non-serious accident scene just long enough to work out who they can fine. It's one thing when there's a dispute over whose fault things are insurance-wise, but when they do shit like this, it's an act of pure c*ntery.
  3. man that sucks. sorry can't give any advice but its scary if they can get away with issuing fines for an accident with no other party, no witnesses, and BAC =0. I'd ask them exactly how you were being negligent, cause accidents happen - hence the term accident, could be gravel, rock, water, marsupial who knows. hopefully someone can give you some legal help but sounds like someone didn't meet their quota that month and just being a d&*$.
  4. next time, tell the doctors you were running down the road and fell over (yes in full bike gear). as long as no-one witnessed your crash or anything, just dont say it was a vehicle accident, and the police hopefully wont get involved...
  5. Did you say you were in the bush when it happened? Was it what they call a "gazzetted road"? If not, then how can you be fined for negligent driving?

    By that rationale you could be charged for an accident on a racetrack or other private road which you can't.

    Unless it was a proper "road" just not a very good one, or a dirt one, in which case perhaps you could argue in court that the quality of the surface was the cause of the accident. If the surface is in fact of very poor quality then I think you would have an argument. It is highly unlikely that the officer who issued the ticket actually visited the scene, rather he just wrote it on the basis of the facts that you pranged on a public road and had to be hospitalised.

    So fight it! That's what the courts are there for.
  6. Victorian coppers operate the same way. Whenever they attend an accident these days the first thing they look for is how many tickets they can the write. But it doesn't stop there, in some instances they also may ask you leading questions like "So do think that was careless?" and if you say yes then they will fit you up for careless driving.

    Reading a Tassie paper this morning I found this article.
    Looks like if you drive a vehicle you are a "target". :cry:
  7. Surely their response in court will be to say yes, the road was in poor condition - so why is it that you did not slow down and ride to the conditions?

    As much as it stinks, I bet it's been tried before.
  8. that would make you 'careless' not 'negligent'
  9. It's a sucky law. A mate who came back from NSW after living there for a few years reckons that if you get hurt, then when you front the ED to say that you "fell off the roof cleaning the gutters" or something like that.

    If this is widespread then it must skew the stats something shocking.

    But there are lessons to be learned. If, after a crash, you have to call 000 then claim that a 'roo jumped out in front of you (or some other animal if in urban areas).

    When speaking to police give them ONLY the details that's required - name, address, etc. Do not engage in any conversation that you aren't required to by law. Don't make the MFs' job any easier than it needs to be.
  10. Same happened to me. Dropped bike by myself, someone called the ambulance.
    Week later got hit with negligent driving and 3 demerit points. For nothing.
  11. Did you challenge it? If not, why not?
  12. But there are lessons to be learned. If, after a crash, you have to call 000 then claim that a 'roo jumped out in front of you (or some other animal if in urban areas).

    Makes no difference; Haggis got ND for hitting a roo, up near Walcha, and that was on top of spending a month in hospital.
  13. So he did, of course, challenge it and take it to court to get it overturned and enjoy having the magistrate castigate the officer, right?

    My bet is that most of the time if it were challenged, that the charge would be withdrawn before it even got to court. They'd be relying on your compliance to simply cave in and pay the bill, thereby admitting guilt, rather than fight it.
  14. Thanks for your support all. Sorry that I cocked when originally posting this topic so its being run in two places under the heading 'booked for negligent driving'.

    Yes I am contesting and looks like I'll have some serious shit to throw at cops. Just a pain in the tommy haas having to go through this crap when I've done sweet fa wrong.
  15. This sounded better the first time I read it when I mistook 'castigate' for 'castrate'.
  16. then the prosecutor needs to be shown as the ignorant twat that they are.

    i know how slippery gravel is and i know people that have slipped at walking pace.

    fines in these cases are nothing more than a money grabbing sham. punishment in the form of money serves no community purpose, and the bike didnt cause any damage to a dirt road in the middle of nowhere that noone cares about, so reparation isnt a valid reason either.
  17. Best suggestion would be speak to Tramp about it. might be able to shed some sort of light
  18. What pisses me off most is the fact that some arse clown introduced this legislation into parliament and another group of arse clowns thought it was perfectly acceptable. Were motorcyclists consulted, or are we just a bunch nobodys?

    My biggest problem is that I can't actually find the 'definition of negligent driving' by which cops would have to satisfy a criteria. I can prove that the bike was rideable and that I could have ridden from the accident had I wanted to but I don't know what else I have to prove... or what they have to prove
  19. Leaves it pretty open to interpretation - court must have regard to condition of road and amount of traffic, but doesn't say what circumstances would be mitigating/extenuating/aggravating to the charge being brought.

    There is also no specific definition of 'negligent'. Common law negligence (from memory of 10year old study now...) relies on a duty of care (which all road users assume when they use the road) and demonstration of damage (harder to fathom in a single vehicle incident like this). However, this is statute, not common law - the police are charging you not suing you. This 'automatic' charge is probably more to do with less official RTA or police procedure than the act itself.

    Would love clarification from someone with more in-depth and/or up-to-date expertise!

  20. Thanks DarkHorse. I think I saw that on RTA website, pretty straight forward really..NOT!!

    Does anyone know who the sh!t for brains is that got this legislation through? My case is just an annoyance but I was told about a case where a bloke was riding along hit a tiny piece of gravel and the bike shook just enough to throw his wife off and she gets killed. He didn't even lose control of the bike. Sure enough the plods charge him with neg driving.

    Do these clowns know what damage they are doing?