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[NSW] Asked for my license, AGAIN!!!

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by hornet, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. When you've been on the road as long as I have, you get used to being pulled for RBT. Usual stuff, "Have you had anything to drink in the last 15 minutes?". "No, not in the last 60 years, actually!".

    Ok, blow in this (or recently, count to 5). Thank you, on your way.

    BUT EVERY time I have been RBTd on the bike, I have been asked for my license, including again this morning on the Picton Road on the way back to Wollongong.

    I challenged the nice young man to give me a reason for this obviously different policy, and all he could lamely offer is that 'bike riders are likely to be riding unlicensed'. To which I replied, "And car drivers AREN'T???"

    He was 50 metres away from any opporutnity to run my details through a computer, or the like, and he barely glanced at my license before handing it back and sending me on my way. I have always resisted the conspiracy theory that we are being discriminated against, but I'm coming round.....
  2. is there a reason to suspect more unlicensed motorcyclists than car drivers?

    (when based on stats it might make sense to the plod - accident rate, loss of licence, speeding, media hype, olmcg, etc. in the end they think a motorcyclist is an easy target in a system that's based on arrest and fine count.)

    i agree though, i always get asked to show my licence (which i think is extra funny because who would ride unlicensed but still display a 'P' plate?) on the bike and the other day going through an rbt in the car out of habit offered them my licence. The officer looked at my kinda funny/angry for wasting her time and then waved me on.
  3. Nah, it's not a conspiracy. You just look dodgy!

  4. It's the tatts that do it.
  5. Same happens to me and like you, I once asked at the time and got a similar reply.

    But, I was lucky enough to be able to ask one of the local superintendents and also to discuss at the MCC level and received similar replies both borne in truth.

    Unlicenced motorcyclists at that time were contributing to 30 or 35% of all motorcycling fatalities and these unlicenced riders were of the 'never held a motorcycle licence' category. Thus a check of the licence reveals the M (for motorcycle) and they are happy in the knowledge that you are licenced to ride.

    For cars, unlicenced drivers are far less representative in the fatality statistics by comparison to motorcyclists and ad dto that the fact that the majority of adults have at some stage held a car licence the quick check necessary at an RBT reveals less.

    IMO, yes it is an inconvenience but one I don't mind and if you feel it a problem mention it to the relevant people or do what I sometimes do and carry the wallet in a backpack. That way, if asked I have to get off the bike, remove the back pack and so on, all causing delays for the officer, and before people say anything my wallet is in my backpack because one pair of dirt pants I use does not have pockets.

  6. +1 to the above, unlicenced riders make up a large portion of the statistics.

    They're doing something about quite a large issue, sack up and give them 30 seconds of your time.
  7. What they really wanted to see was your licence. I have no idea what this "license" thing is.... :p

    Really Paul - I'd expect better from someone your vintage
  8. Well, it's not because he's using the wrong dictionary in Firefox..... :p
  9. :?

    I should have trusted my own initial spelling. :/
  10. I dont think they are targeting bikes, as i have been asked for my license while driving and riding... I think it is a good thing, as if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.
  11. I think you'll find that license/licence is pretty interchangeable these days......

    I think it is a good thing, as if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

    err, yeah

    with RBT I've get less to hide than anyone since I've never had a drink in my life

    And, as I said, I've NEVER been asked for my car license at an RBT, ever, and I've been driving since before there WERE RBTs, but I have never failed to be asked for it when on the bike.

    Reading of the rest of the thread will confirm other peoples' similar experience.
  12. There is an incorrect logic leap going on here.

    there is a high number of unlisenced rider accidents.

    But it does not follow there is a large number of unlicensed riders.

    It only follows that unlicensed riders are more likely to have an accident. It just prooves that cops are dumb.
  13. It is not about whether you are liscenced or not, but whether they can slap a fine on you (driver or rider) for not carrying your liscence with you.

  14. Over Christmas, bikes were being singled out in RBT's. I reported about the total shut down of the Westgate freeway and it didn't matter that the RBT lanes were chockas, EVERY bike was pulled over, helmet off, licence check, alcohol test AND drug test.

    EVERY bike.

    That might have been a blitz at the time... but anecdotally I hear bikers are getting more scrutiny at RBT's...

    +1 ibast.
  15. That's dangerous thinking there mate, when appraising any law. That's why you have tests of reasonableness and just cause.

    Should police be able to enter your house at any time of the day or night and go through all of your things and search your computer to check for drugs, firearms, child pornography? Coz seriously...if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.
  16. Completely different scenario; we are talking about the process and results of being stopped, in public, for the reasonable purpose of conducting a Random Breath Test, not searching thorugh your wife's smalls :roll:.

    In the context of public RBT, or ANY OTHER ROAD LAW, if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. Protestations to the contrary always come from people who have had or are having trouble with the police, and often because they DO have something to hide.
  17. No, I am saying that "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" is not a good test of any law. In this instance it is REASONABLE to request your license - plus that cop was also trying to suggest an element of JUST CAUSE (motorcyclist more likely to be unlicensed etc).

    I'm simply saying that if you use the idea of "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" as the only test of of a law, then you are on a slippery slope. Responding to old mates justification. That is not justification enough.

    Do you see the difference that I am getting at?
  18. yep, I see the difference, but as the only test of of a law is not being suggested.

    In the pursuit of criminal, who just happens to look like you, a Policeman might stop you in the street and ask you to identify yourself. He may not explain why, either. But it is a perfectly reasonable request because he is looking for someone who ISN'T you. In this context you have nothing to fear because you have nothing to hide.

    However, if, in this scenario, the reason why the criminal looks like you is because he is your identical twin brother, and you've just had coffee with him down the street aways, then you DO have something to fear because you ARE hiding something from the officer of the law.

    I DO find it puzzling that not a day goes by on Netrider that someone doesn't report some matter as having been reported to the Police, and the complaint is that they did nothing, but hand-in-hand with this obvious admission that the Police are either too busy, or don't care, is this paranoia that they are lurking in every street, just waiting to harrass or arrest innocent people. You just can't have it both ways. The reality is that they are over-stretched, and struggling to catch and prosecute the criminals they know about already. As a general principle, I believe that the dictum of no fear/no hide is fair.
  19. Yeah, nah I hear what you're saying, but you're looking way too far into what I wrote hey.

    I wasn't getting into a whole blah blah cops are ****s thing - I actually don't have anything against them and don't really care whether cops ask me for my license or not.

    It was just a note saying that the only reason he gave for why you should be okay with following a police direction is the "nothing to hide" argument. And that is not enough reason to make or to have to obey ANY law. In this case there are other reasons to do what he asked you to do (namely that it was an entirely reasonable request).

    That phrase is one of the phrases that should set off alarm bells in people's heads. It can be used for good and for evil.

    (and PS it was you who has questioned the police request in the first place, not me: :)
    "[NSW] Asked for my license, AGAIN!!!"
    "I have always resisted the conspiracy theory that we are being discriminated against, but I'm coming round...." ) :wink: :)

    Edit: just noticed this part - "As a general principle, I believe that the dictum of no fear/no hide is fair."
    Yeah, cool so we do disagree. I thought you must have misunderstood as that I thought everyone would know that absolute power corrupts absolutely :grin:
  20. I've asked the same question of a copper about the unlicensed riders. His response was that he didn't see any more unlicensed bike riders as compared to car drivers. It may be true however that unlicensed riders appear disproportionately for the real reason that unlicensed = untrained. There is also the argument that someone who is likely to break one law (not having a licence) is more likely to break another.

    As for the 'nothing to hide' argument, it's the argument of a lazy person. Morbo is on the money. It's how I imagine someone who isn't white feels when they are stopped for the umpteenth time for a routine search, as they 'resemble someone involved in a crime'. After all, if you've got nothing to hide.