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[NSW] ABC news story on RTA potentially enforcing minimum protective clothing standard

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by evelknievel75, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. the ABC just ran a story on the govt and RTA considering enforcing protective clothing for all scooter riders and motorcyclists in NSW, after highlighting the big increase in new riders coming off and having rather bad injuries ( guess which riders? yes, scooters ).

    they did cut to guy stanford showing his damaged jacket and a quick soundbite but i bet it was edited so we don't know what else guy might have said. also a shot of joe tripodi talking about it. many shots of scooter riders squiding. funnily enough no bikes. i ride both so i am not casting anything on scooter riders here but i see the majority of them in next to no gear.

    to enforce this I think is a big step backwards. i go ATGATT 99% but on a trip down to my local beach, 5 min away, i dont want to wear leathers, boots and full face helmet for that.
    I have checked the mcc nsw site and there is no mention of this potential issue.

    Can anyone shed any light on this?

  2. Can't shed any light on any NSW Government policy, because every one of them is in the dark!

    However, like all Government initiatives, they can pass any law they like, but with Police force numbers dropping in real terms, they'll never be enforced anyway.
  3. I'd be stunned if Guy was ever to endorse any sort of mandatory wearing of gear. Besides - since there's no standards for motorcycle protective clothing, how could they?
  4. While I'm an ATGATT sort, I'm 100% against requiring adults to wear any personal safety equipment… including helmets.
  5. To do this would require NSW to go out on a limb and ignore the agreement that exists between the states to move towards standardisation on the Australian Road Rules. Not that that would be unusual for NSW.

    Unless they can get it up nationally (possible), I don't see it happening.
  6. There was a shot near the end of a guy on a ZXR wearing a t-shirt, so it wasn't exclusively about scooters...

    While I'm not a fan of mandating standards for wearing gear they do have a point about the cost to the wider community from injuries as a result of not wearing sufficient gear. Not only does it have an impact on CTP premiums but it would also affect WorkCover premiums (since any injuries incurred while travelling directly between home and work or in the course of your job fall under WorkCover).

    On the WorkCover angle it could be argued from an OH&S standpoint (again, I'm not advocating that this become law) that riders travelling to or from work should wear a minimum level of protective clothing. Since there are already minimum standards for protective equipment for other work-related activities it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for those to be applied to work travel as well.

    One important point at the end of the story was that the MCC seems to be pushing for the availability of apparel appropriate to Australian conditions before they would support any sort of law.

    There's some more stats in this release from Tripodi yesterday: Motorcycle protective clothing in the spotlight
  7. Of the 1000's of people who squid, how many of them have accidents? Of those, what are their injuries and what was the additional cost to treat them compared to a rider wearing the minimum standard or gear?

    Define the standard? Is it full leather pants? If not, then full covering of the legs? If the latter, we know that the abrasion resistance of anything other than a reinforced jeans is pretty low. If you wear reinforced jeans, what about leg armour? We have people here who have badly hurt themselves with impact injuries.

    It's such a can of worms, it would never end. I like the idea of letting people make certain decisions for themselves. As for this idea of the 'wider cost', another slippery slope and one we shouldn't traverse.
  8. Once again, I would point to the 45,000 people a year in Australia who require medical treatment for sports injuries. Compared to that, a few squids getting filed down a bit is peanuts, so I trust that adherence to minimum safety standards on the sporting field and in the gym will be examined first.
  9. I'd oppose this simply because it doesn't suit all riders and all trips. I occasionally shoot down to the shops (3min) with just a helmet and gloves (and fully enclosed shoes). My average speed would probably be ~40km/h, barely faster than a bicycle.
  10. What's the motivator? Certainly the NSW government and RTA are genuine in wanting to reduce injuries and therefore costs. Fine. But are they serious about funding the enormous costs of introducing a star rating system, or is the plan really to pass those costs on the riders, with the unspoken understanding that they will also be able to price a lot of people out of riding this way?
  11. That is an impressive statistic. What is the source? I'd like to use it myself when the occasion arises.
  12. I fail to see how they can enforce motorcycle safety clothing when there are no Australian standards for motorcycle safety wear.

    We have no standards for protective clothing abrasion resistance, burst strength, impact absorption, etc...

    Trying to enforce protective clothing is pointless without these standards, as some bureaucrat might think that leathers are the safest option without realising that its all good an well that the leather has great abrasive resistance but that is useless if the leather tear open the second you touch the road leaving you in your undies and a singlet - sort of makes it pointless really.
  13. Note that CTP does not cover the rider - yes pillions, and anyone else injured by the riders actions on his bike

    Not that I've heard.

    Last MCC meeting had mention of safety gear moving towards a "Star Rating" system, similar to NCAP on cars and energy consumption on electrical appliances. How well does the jacket.pants work in a slide - will the seams come apart and will the armour stay in place
  14. yeah well they quoted guy again today in the daily terrorgraph. a big full page article on this push for minimum gear standards. total bulls*t if you ask me. i rode from a friends place to bronte (10 min) in boardies and a tshirt. where do i hang my leathers for this trip.

    joe tripodi is a complete *&#$wit and not even his own colleagues trust him. ( the minister in charge ). so i enjoyed reading our moronic premier may dump joe but he is still a heavy ( literally and figuratively ) factional heavyweight amongst the labour party.

    this is bullshit. for all those saying it wont happen look out.
  15. Asswipes...can't find a link??

    As mentioned above, Guy is a strong supporter in freedom of choice - media drivel
  16. I am a passionate believer that people should be allowed to make their own mistakes. I am about to ride to the beach on Liz's scooter in my board shorts, t-shirt, helmet and gloves, with my safety thongs providing essential protection for my feet. But it's 1km ride and I will be speed limited to 40-60kmh for the entire trip. I do 30+ on the push bike.

    What I've never understood is the amount of people (up here) who will gear up for a spirited ride and not use gloves. In an accident, you WILL use your hands to protect you, no matter what the speed. I've seen and felt the evidence of it and still have no recollection of doing it, except the bruised hands and damaged gloves tell the truth. So you come off at 100kmh, safely ensconced in your jacket and jeans but your hands have been mashed to stumps? If you're going to squid, do it properly.
  17. re: todays article....I can't find a link on their website but it's page 11 of the sun terror.....

    anyway, here's a jpeg of the article...

  18. Perhaps they're thinking from the angle of another vehicle being at fault, causing said rider to come off and leave half their skin behind. Would this be covered under CTP? I would presume so but I'm not sure.

    On the topic of increased cost to community, I don't think this is related to weather the rider was wearing full protective gear. From what I remember from that RTA good gear guide most of the injuries the resulted in a large cost to the community were things like broken spines and the such. While wearing a jacket with a back protector in MIGHT minimise the damage, squidding or not if you come off and hit a tree at 70km/ph chances are you're going to get very badly hurt.

    EDIT: Can I please have a dollar every time the phrase "Tough new laws" is used? Honestly, you might as well just say "Laws that will get a stack of people offside for no real reason"
  19. Part of me really, really wants the RTA to make people wear gloves and look after their pillions in particular, but I don't want it to be law as we should all be able to decide for ourselves, so how about advertising and sponsoring courses to educate instead?
  20. I agree, Yakster.

    Gear should be worn, but making it a requirement to wear a full one-piece race suit and class-2 spine protector for a ride through 50kph suburbs would be absurd. (Especially when I can ride my mountainbike at the same speeds. Mind you, I always wear gloves, even on the bicycle)

    Agree that education and encouragement to own the correct gear would be better. Would be nice if there was a subsidy or government pressure to eliminate the Australian-bike-store "tax" imposed by the shops.