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[NSW] 2 weeks riding and got done for red lights

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by jc212, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Here it is:

    I have been riding since early April and last night I was cruising along princes hwy towards the city (sydney) and was coming up to the intersection just outside scotts motorcycles. Coming up to the intersection I saw the light go from green to yellow but I froze up and didn't stop, I think I was too afraid of braking hard because there was a 4WD behind me and I didn't want it to collect me. Anyway, I zip through the red lights and a few seconds later I heard sirens. That's about where my heart imploded. Turns out that the 4WD is actually a cop car *slaps head*.
    I wasn't expecting much sympathy from them since I knew I ran through those reds. I asked them what I was in for and the officer said $200 something dollars and 2 points.

    Now, there is a few things I'd like to know:

    I didn't get a slip with information about the fine on the night. Are they suppose to give you something? (Mates said I should get a slip)

    I am on my Learners for both C and R classes. The officer hinted to me that I won't get demerit points deducted until I pay the fine. So does that mean if I get my car P's before I pay the fine, the points will be deducted from the 4 points given to me (from the P's)?

    If my license is suspended, how long will it be suspended?

    If i've got my full car license and my black rider license, do I still get to ride if i've lost my car license? (I have a friend that had both licenses suspended because his car license ran out of demerit points)
  2. They can post you the slip of paper with the fine later. Most undercover guys will do this. They're allowed to not issue you with the fine on the spot.

    If you get your car P's before you pay the fine, you should keep your car license. However you may lose your learner's for the bike.

    Minimum license suspension is 3 months... you gotta screw up fairly badly to get 6 months or more.

    Both licenses equal: losing one means both are lost.
  3. Or you can right in identifying the risk you saw and requesting leniancy on those ground and cross your fingers...
  4. Thanks for the reply Ktulu,

    Damn, it's a bit depressing to know that the minimum is 3 months.. I don't know how i'm going to cope. It's like i'm this ravenous hobo and i'm taking my first bite of a delicious burger only to get it taken away from me. Bleh, I'll pull through it somehow! All I know is, I'll be hopping right back on when i've served the time. :wink:
  5. ah bugger, that sucks .. good luck with it :)
  6. Got Buckley's chance given the tail-gating vehicle was a cop. He'll just say he was nowhere near the bike - his word against jc212's. A L/P plater's word isn't worth jack in court, so I wouldn't waste my time and possibly money contesting it.

    Shame it works that way, but that's how it is. Guilty until proven innocent - and how do you prove it when no judge anywhere would believe you? :p
  7. easy dude easy.

    i racked up about 6 fines when i had my learner for car and bike. I Paid them all b4 i got my P's for both. i didnt get suspended or loss any point of my license after i got my P's. I live in sydney like u.

    The process is if there is a serouse offence or u get too many fines on ur L plates it goes to a specail guy that has the power to suspend the L plater.
    (i know this because i asked the same question to every cop that fined me and this was the most consistant answer)

    If u have a Learner bike and P car then they try to take the points of ur car license, i have heard of people arguing this point with em that they should not incure demrit point loss as they did the offence on the bike i think they made some leway with the RTA on the issue but im not sure what exactly happened
  8. How close was the 4wd behind you. I have seen many a time coppers sitting only a meter behind people. If it was real close, did they have video evidence. I would think you could argue that being a Learner to not only motorbikes but the road, your still learning braking distances, and with the distance the car was behind you, you felt that you were in danger of being rear ended by a 4wd. Of course the 4wd was intimidating to you being new to the road, you got scared and possilby made a bad choice due to inexperience, but possibly could have saved you a lotta broken bones and bike parts. Also you didn't know it was a copper, it could have been some random soccer mom in a rush that can't handle the car she is driving. Seriously, if you get a ticket, appeal it mate. If he was close behind you I reckon you have good grounds to have it changed to a warning.

    Let us know how it goes.


  9. anzac sticker
  10. Are you sure mate? If that is the case then i'll be glad to pay the fine ($300 :( ) if that means I can still ride :LOL: . Have you got any solid evidence that an L license won't get suspended for a minor offense like mine? (red light = minor?)

    After reading the comments and listening to my mates i've decided not to appeal. I've just got a really bad feeling that i'll lose no matter what! But thanks again guys for your replies! You guys are awesome!
  11. Seriously mate, how far was he behind you. Appeal and plead inexperienced, might save you $300, the worst they can do is say no and you pay the fine anyway.
  12. After much searching of the RTA website, I came up with this:

    The fine for not stopping at a red light is $308.....
    It appears that "Learners" do not accrue demerit points.....

    The following was taken from the Road Users Handbook.

    If I come across any other info, I'll post it.....cheers :?
  13. If i do decide to take this matter to court, how do I start? What happens after I fill in the court election papers and mail them? What is the process from then on? Do i need a lawyer or something?? What is my defense except for my word against theirs?
  14. Wow wow wow, theres a difference between appealing and taking it to court. To appeal, you just send a letter WITH NO MONEY to the place outlining why you think this fine is unfair given the circumstances, and then a few weeks or even up to about a month later, you'll receive a letter saying either they have decided to give you a warning due to the circumstances or that your appeal is declined and you still have to pay the fine.

    If you give them a call, theres like an hour long answering machine mesage telling you what to do, that will tell you where to send an appeal to, or you can do what i did, theres two adresses on the letter i had, i just guessed, guessed wrong, and it still worked anyway. Also interms of due date, when they receive the letter that due date is put on hold pending there decision, and if the decline it you have another 21 days to pay it. Also, don't send money in with your letter, if you do, they'll take the money and ignore the letter.

    So yeah, write up a letter, get some people to check it, i'm sure there'd be a few netriders happy to have a quick look at it to check it sound ok, and send it off and wait for the decision, you have nothing to lose with that and a possible $300 to gain.

    If it is declined though, just pay up then, if you take it to court and you get a biatch of a judge the fine may grow waaaaaaaaaaay outta proportion.
  15. I was pulled over for rbt (because I was going 50 in a 50 zone.. but in first gear, so very loud) and they noticed I was on learners with no plate. It had fallen off on the way (no joke, its cardboard so what do you expect). Slapped me with 180 fine and 2 points.

    I was on red Ps and bike Ls. If I accepted the infringement I would have 2 points off my car license. Since you don't have any points on Ls, they take them off your car license. If you have no car license, you lose your license. But alot of the time doing you on your Ls is due to inexperience, so its often rubbish giving you demerits when you're trying to learn, without an instructor next to you to help...
  16. OK, this is what i've come up with so far. I don't know much about the structure of appeal letters and I also don't know how to finish this off. Any suggestions/comments?



    To Whom It May Concern:

    I wish to appeal the penalty (no. #########) given to me by committing the offence of ‘proceeding through a red traffic light’ at 1:25am Friday 27/04/07 on the Princes Highway, Kogarah.

    I plead a total of three conditions that support my appeal: Risk Identification, Inexperience, and First Offence.

    Risk Identification: Coming up to the intersection (where the offense was committed) I examined my rear-view mirrors and found an SUV behind me. Aware of the yellow (then red) lights ahead, I continued through the intersection at my normal pace for the fear that the SUV might rear-end my motorcycle if I emergency braked. I also felt that grabbing too much brake would topple me over. Before crossing the intersection, I simulated both of these scenarios in my mind and it was only in the interests of my safety that I precede through the red traffic lights.

    Inexperience: On the day of the offense, I had only 2 weeks of riding experience prior. It had also been two weeks since I obtained my Learner rider license. I chose a time very early in the morning where there was little to no traffic so I could practice riding technique and gain experience. Before and at the time of the intersection incident I was under considerable pressure and I gathered what experience and road craft I had and made, in my mind, the safest choice.

    First Offence: As you may or may not be aware this will be my first traffic offense in my driving/riding life. I request leniency on those grounds.
  17. I wouldn't say the heavy braking would topple you over because they will say if you start braking when the light goes orange you should have had plenty of time to stop. I would try something along these lines -

    I felt uncomftorable with the distance the SUV was travelling behind me. Due to my inexperience I am still learning how long it takes me to travel a certain distance, and how far to stop. I was unsure whether I was best to go through given the SUV behind me or if I should stop and hesitated unsure if i'd make the right decision. By this stage i felt to stop i would have had to have braked hard to stop which I felt was dangerous due to the SUV driving closely behind.

    I'd also put down that you understand you made a wrong decision but you had had thaught the decision through and at the time felt you had made the right decision. It was a wrong decision you made due to inexperiance. Also point out that you did not speed up to 'make it through' the lights.

    Other then that i think its pretty good, lets see what other people say.
  18. take it to court, do you really want this on your record?, it's going to add to your insurance costs for the next 5 years.
    Talk to Mark from Lawstop (his number is in most bike mags) it's his job to get you off.
  19. Just curious....did the 4WD follow you through the red light? Or did he stop, activated his lights and siren and then proceeded through the intersection after you?
  20. I know it is hard to get this out of your mind, but;

    1) The fine might never come... the cop has to go back to the station and do all the paperwork to have it sent out to you... If he is an undercover guy, he won't have his own infringement book, so he will have to get someone to let him use theirs, the Undercover/detectives guys don't talk much general duties guys, so it might just all be too much trouble and he will forget all about it, hoping that the scare was enough to make you more careful,

    2) It sounds like you are on your learners for both C and R, so therefore you may not loose anything other than the cost of the fine. You can try to write a letter of appeal, but from recent experience I don't think they are even considered anymore... it is court or pay up unless you can prove it wasn't you... To go to court you fill in the 'court election' section on the back of the fine (that hopefully will never turn up)... but be aware, even if you win in court, the RTA still takes your points... SCUMBAGS...

    In the end, best case is nothing happens, worst case, $300 is a cheap lesson in comparison to what can happen from running a red light... keep your chin up mate...