Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

Now passengers need ID to travel within Britain

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by pro-pilot, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. How long before here?


    Passengers on domestic flights and ferries between mainland Britain and Northern Ireland will be required to carry identity papers for the first time from next year.

    The move will effectively establish a highly controversial internal border within the UK and could pave the way for identity checks on all domestic flights and ferries in Britain.

    Once operational, the system will allow the police to build up a complete picture of passenger movements between Ulster and the mainland.

    And it will enable them to carry out background checks to identify suspected criminals and potential terrorists.

    The move comes as police and security services are pushing for wider access to information on passenger movements within Britain, whether by air, sea or national rail and coach networks.

    Last night, Unionists said the proposals were tantamount to treating people from the Province as "second-class citizens".

    Under the new system, personal information given by a passenger when purchasing a ticket will be checked on police computers looking for possible suspects.

    Travellers will also be required to produce a valid passport or driving licence to buy a ticket.

    The system is similar to that already in place to check those travelling to and from Britain on international flights and allows intelligence services to "profile" suspects, looking for patterns of criminal behaviour.

    The Home Office last night confirmed the measures would be introduced next year using a so-called "statutory instrument" signed off by Home Secretary-Jacqui Smith, without the need for a full debate in the Commons.

    The Government said the move will enforce powers included in the Police and Justice Act 2006 which allows officers to monitor all "flights and voyages" starting in the UK.

    An "impact assessment" document on the plans said discussions were taking place with travel companies about the possibility of delays being caused as the information is collected.

    The Home Office publication, written last year, also said the "rationale" behind the system is to provide the police with "essential intelligence".

    It stated: "It is often the case that domestic travel forms part of a journey beginning or ending overseas.

    "For example, having arrived in the Republic or Northern Ireland from overseas, terrorist targets may then use domestic air and sea routes for travel to...the UK mainland."

    "The lack of data on the domestic leg of such journeys creates a critical gap in the intelligence picture."

    MP Jeffrey Donaldson, of the Democratic Unionist Party, said the proposals were an "outrage".

    He said: "It treats the people of Northern Ireland as second-class citizens and if it goes ahead it will be challenged in the courts.

    "We are as concerned about our security as anyone else in the United Kingdom but these measures should be put in place on the land border with the Irish Republic."

    Tony Bunyan, of civil liberties organisation Statewatch, said: "The Government is using the fear of terrorism to build up an apparatus of far-ranging social control that allows them to build up a complete picture of our lives."

    Former Europe Minister Keith Vaz, chairman of the Commons Home Affairs select committee, which is carrying out an inquiry into the "Surveillance Society", last night said he would raise the issue with Ministers next week.

    He said: "This is a civil liberties issue. It needs to be debated fully by Parliament."
  2. The terrorists have won.
  3. yes they frikkin have
  4. i beg to differ. terrorists don't want us living in a heightened sense of fear and security. they want us dead. the koran doesn't say badger them til they increase their air and sea security. it says kill them (see below). i don't have answers and i'm by no means a fan of big-brother government but i wouldn't call this a win for the jihadists.

    "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

    "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

    "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

    "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

    "If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

    "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

    "Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

    "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

    "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

    "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

    "It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

    "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

    "It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

    "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

    "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

    "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

    "Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:7:cool:

    "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

    "Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)
  5. :WStupid:
  6. Zhow me ze papers!

  7. bring on the minority report with eye cameras to track you where-ever you go
  8. Unbelievable.

    That's an enlightening post Carri.

    If those are truly Koran edicts, then how can the Islamic council proclaim that Islam is a religion of peace?

    I guess the same kind of post could be made from the bible :-k ...but Christianity is touted as a religion of tolerance and peace...

    I'm confoooosed. :?

    Having said that though, those ID controls sound like using a wrecking ball to crack a peanut. :roll: That's utterly sad.
  9. i don't get it either rob. it seems to me though that even the most fundamentalist of christians these days are selective in which parts of the bible they take literally. eg Genesis - yes; stoning your neighbours - no. Paul?

  10. They can't.
    Islam is a religion with a violent history coupled with violent instruction.

    For starters tolerance = disagreeing with someone else, but respecting their right to their own opinion/view if that is their choice. It does NOT mean agreeing with everyone.
    Christianity is not a religion of agreeing whatever you believe is ok with them. Most religions aren't.

    Christianity presents 'peace' as a goal, not as any element of reality here on earth. Plenty of other religions do the same.

    Terrorism means fundamentalist violence is outlawed by western society. Terrorists hide behind religious instruction from the Quoran and Islamic principles, using them to justify their actions.
    And they can! Look at Carri's quotes. The Quoran calls for violent action.
    Islam also allows the belief that people can be forcibly converted to Islam by violence and that it is ok to do this for others' own good.

    'Moderate' Islamists say they aren't violent and they don't interprete the Quoran that way because they don't want to be identified with terrorism or suffer from that prejudice or persecution... they also don't have the balls to follow the instructions of the Quoran properly but like the rest of the stuff in there + face it, the religion is a family tradition and your ignorant father will throw acid on your face if you denounce Allah.

    I guess I know what you're thinking with a comparison with Christianity: I guess people accuse Christianity of hypocrisy because although the teaching is consistent [Jesus over-ruled all the stoning people and not eating certain foods from the Old Testament], there are prominent wrongs in the history of the church [crusades, etc.].
    Islam though, preaches and teaches violence... and some very good followers certainly have gotten our attention in recent times.

    Islam flourishes in countries of ignorance and poverty. It is violent, logically inconsistent in a spiritual context, and is abused as a higher standard of morality by old men to maintain and increase power, oppress women, and wage war.
  11. actaully it is more like using a wrecking ball to build a glass house.

    they won't work and they'll cost losts of money
  12. Well said. Anyone that tries to tell you that Islam is a religion of peace is not a Muslim. They are a person that likes certain aspects of the Muslim faith. The truest example of a Muslim is Osama Bin Laden. Whatever you might think of him, he has more integrity from the standpoint of being a Muslim than just about anyone else in the world. He's also a murderous arsehole, of course, but that's what Islam calls their followers to be.

    And for all of Christianity's makeover, with the hippy Christ coming in and trying to clean up the Old Testament, Yahweh, the Christian god, still advocated razing entire villages, leaving no man, woman or child alive, as they didn't believe in him. Remember the slaughter of the people that carved the golden ox while Moses was up getting the new rulebook? Whatever Christ said later, this was the god he was talking about.

    Every religion believes themselves to be the ultimate truth, with all others imposters. They all believe that everyone would be better off if they believed in that one "true faith". There is no such thing as tolerance in religion. It's a case of ignoring the "infidels" until you can think of a way of converting them because murder and violent coercion are frowned upon these days. But all major religions advocate it.

  14. Thought provoking stuff guys. :-k

    Very interesting Ktulu. Very interesting.
  15. Mostly. I just wish people would get over it and come to terms with the reality of that outcome instead of fighting the authorities at every step.
  16. fcuk that!
  17. Good luck with that then. You are fighting a losing battle. The authorities aren't going to give in and allow these assholes to bomb innocents into pink mist. That means more security measures. Whinge all you want, but you will have a less stressful life if you just accept that this is the world that we have been forced to live in by the terrorist jerkoffs and that these measures are primarily designed to protect the bulk of society ie. you and me.
  18. You can sit back in your apathy and let the government do what it likes with your civil liberties. I'll be standing up and fighting against unreasonable fear campaigns and erosion of civil liberties at every opportunity.
  19. It isn't apathy because I want them to do stuff like this to protect me, you and everyone else. I have seen what I have seen and I have a good idea of what the threat is. It isn't an unreasonable fear! These measures are needed, no question in my mind. Good on the governments like the UK for making the hard calls to protect it's citizens.

    Question for you - how important will your civil liberties be to you when one of your family is killed or severely maimed in an explosion? Sadly, there are a lot of people in Britain that have had to consider this and who may place less emphasis on maintaining civil liberties when it is those exact liberties that allowed the terrorists to succeed in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.
  20. I am English.