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Not paying fines as a protest?

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by Bamm-Bamm, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Just thinking out loud here so bear with me...

    Most of us know that speeding is not the only contributor to road accidents, it is however the easiest one to enforce and the most profitable. Day in day out we hear of people being victimised by speed cameras that are inaccurate or of drivers losing their license for a momentary lack of judgment.

    Bearing in mind the massive numbers of people who get fined everyday across Australia, do you think a month of not paying fines would get the point across to politicians from both sides that we the people are fed up with the bullshit and lies masquerading as road safety initiatives.

    Do you think a campaign along these lines could work?, perhaps an approach could be made to Mark Skaife or others who have alternative ideas to the fine them wherever we can approach that has been used by both sides of government .

    Obviously to stand any chance there would have to be a big enough number of people to make the pollies take notice, other wise a few people just get increased penalty notices. Do you think this would fly?


    PS: I don't condone silly speeds in built up areas, but at the same time I don't subscribe to the wipe of 5 save lives BS either. If it's 2pm in the afternoon, traffic is low and visibility is great then doing 130kph on the freeway should be legal...there is a balance to safety and convenience.

  2. What would be more effective would be if EVERYONE took the option to have the fines heard in court. If EVERYONE did that, the system would buckle. It's a legal approach, no one is doing the wrong thing, and THAT would make the point very well.
  3. You'd have to have such a critical mass that it would actually be noticed, like when the Police go on strike and refuse to post out infringement notices.

    Even if you DO get enough people, they lump late fees, court costs, more late fees, and the cost of the fine will at least double. Even if you pay the original fine, they'll chase you for the rest.

    Not all THAT long ago, Vic Police were checking rego's of cars parked at the Vic Market and wheel clamping anything with outstanding fines. Harsh.
  4. I recon this would work well, and like you say Flux their is nothing illegal about it. I think not paying would probably end up with a Lot of people angry and the person organising the protest when they get extra penalties and have to pay.
  5. Probably 50% of speeding fine cases could be won if people went to court!
    The police just aren't equipped / dont expect people to do this.
  6. Hmmm would you really want to ride on roads where everyone assumed they couldn't get speeding fines? Too many idiots out there thinking they are invincible would not be good for bikes.
  7. People don't want to kill themselves, no matter what YOU think they believe. I've ridden on enough unpatrolled roads in my years to have a good idea of exactly what this so-called "lawlessness" looks like, and it isn't anything like the nightmare the beige-brigade would have you believe.

    There will always be fools, speeding fines or no. That element of the riding/driving population doesn't change in either scenario. For everyone else though, they understand their limitations even if it doesn't necessarily mean adhering to a set artificial speed limit.

    Generally speaking, I personally trust a skilled rider experienced at travelling at whatever speed they are comfortable at moreso than I trust a bunch of beige-brigade knobs who seem to have trouble negotiating corners within their own lane.
  8. Thing to remember is if you don't pay the fine you have a good chance of having your licence and/or registration suspended... (depending on state).
  9. Tramp, if you went to court for a camera infringement, what evidenciary brief would you be asking from the prosecution?

    - Mobile/Fixed camera calibration cert?
    - Mobile/Fixed camera maintenance records?
    - Mobile camera operator logs of the day?
    - The mobile camera operator appearing as a witness?

    Would you come prepped with
    - Report of weather conditions?
    - A plot of the camera location versus allowed siting location? (this is an interesting one. DOJ has the approved locations for siting mobile cameras on the web. In Altona meadows large sections of Queen and Merton (IIRC) street are "approved" however, there's plenty of places with signage etc that would make it "not in accordance with the operating manual").
    - Other stuff?

    If you object and take it to court, the prosecution have to make the case right and if they do, then you have to dismantle the case somehow - can a lay person give that a go?

    What's the outcome of a guilty verdict? A conviction? Even for a one pointer?
  10. I think it's not necessary to actually go to defend the case, it's enough to just tie up the court's time by going and pleading guilty that would send the message.
  11. Yes, or if you didn't think you were guilty of it (and plenty don't), then just go in and plead innocence to the offense. Say that you were watching your speedo, you know that the camera was there, you checked your speed, you go through the same route every day for work, and yet you still got a ticket and ask how that could have happened.

    You'd likely still get the fine, but the main point is that there's only so many traffic courts around, and they rely on 95% of the people simply paying the ticket. If even 50% took the option to take it to court, the backlog would blow out to a large number of years within a few months, forcing the system to its knees and drying up the revenue stream, which is exactly what you want to achieve isn't it?

  12. My understanding is that by chosing not to pay the infringement notice, and electing to be convicted that the magistrate choses what the punishment is (within the maximum and minimum permissible by law)
  13. Yes, the only discretion a magistrate has in Victoria is to increase penalties. Mandatory minimum penalties, the other side of this farcical situation, leaves the magistrate's hands tied.
  14. **** oath. I'm good with a guy passing me at whatever speed he's capable of as long as he's paying attention. Have felt safer being passed by a road racer on the old pac doing a dollar fifty than passing some fluro wearing tool pulling the speed limit but without a bloody clue and all over the road.

    The beige are dangerous, distracted and clumsy. That's why they want these rules in place, they are not capable. Too many times I've watched the inept 'born again' types wobble down a high speed road pulling dangerously low speeds and causing issues. But the attitude is always 'it was the other guy's fault' without ever accepting any share of the blame.

    And listening to some safety nazi with no roadcraft bang on about 'limits' and proper riding is scary. You don't know your own limits, you have never practiced sliding, locking wheels, high-speed cornering. When it all goes to hell and you've made a bad move, you have no experience and no chance of recovery. It is not safe riding, it is woefully unprepared.
  15. Option: get a large group of people -any vehicle, it doesn't matter- together, have everyone go past a speed camera (or five...) at 10k over the limit. Then they each challenge their fine.
  16. ummm, how large is this hypothetical group?
  17. Not sure what size would be needed (not familiar with the system, don't know how much would be needed to make an impact), but I'm thinking at least a hundred. I'm not expecting such a protest to cause a complete breakdown of the system, but it would be a way of raising awareness and stuff. As long as no-one managed to screw things up royally, it would also be a demonstration of minor speeding not resulting in horrendous, bloody death and destruction.

    As I said, its an option, not a "Do this, it's the perfect solution!" :shrug:.