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no start just a click, push start just locks up back wheel

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' at netrider.net.au started by TAX123, May 11, 2009.

  1. Hi, my bike was running fine, when I got it home i thought I would spent a weekend cleaning the thing inside and out, sprayed some cleaner around the carbs motor, wiped it away checked one of my plugs to see if its ok, no fouling etc, all good, tightened a few loose nuts, nothing out of the ordinary,



    now when i went to start it up all the lights came on including the green N , when i hit the start button, a load click then nothing, turned the key off then on then run then start and click again, checked the battery it had 12.9 v which is good, but as soon as i hit the start, the click then the battery whent to around 6v when i turned it of again the battery went back up to 12.9 v, the click sound comes from the starter, all fuses are fine, at one stage all lights went off, I pulled on the earth cable and the lights came on again but when i started it only 1 load click again, whats the problem?
     
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  2. The volt dropping sounds about right.

    Have you tried push starting the bike?
     
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  3. You do not have enough charge coming from the battery to run the starter motor. Enough for the lights, but not much more.
    since pulling on the earth cable affected it, perhaps it is a loose connection there (or elsewhere)? Could you have left a light or alarm or something on to drain the battery? (probably not).
    My money says you knocked a connector loose somewhere, or the battery posts got wet and are corroded.[/quote]
     
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  4. no
    its in a garage on the bottom of a steep driveway, and a bit to heavy for me to push it up backwards, i had it in gear and rolled with clutch then released to see if it seazed up but looks ok,

    would a bad earth cable cause this, or would spray in a carby breather cause this ? i may have tugged on some of the cables, but the power is getting to the starter but only 1 big click noise, no turning over
     
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  5. theres a real good chance its the battery, its almost always the problem.

    12.9 sounds like plenty but it might not be enough. push start it or buy a trickle charger, the best $50 you will ever spend.

    if it wasnt the battery at least you now have a charger and got some exercise :grin:
     
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  6. could be the starter motor, what sort of current is the battery throwing out when you start it? It may be holding volts, but may not be able to push out the current needed. Try Jump starting the bike.
     
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  7. see if jump starting it will work
     
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  8. It is a bad terminal connection. Either at the battery or to the starter motor.

    Pull them one at a time and give them a good clean with a wire brush.
     
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  9. +1 for probably battery - 12.9V standing should be enough, but closer to 14V would be better. Dropping to 6V when it tries to crank means not enough charge under load - my bike needs somewhere around 9V when cranking to turn the starter motor over reliably.

    Try jumping it or charging the battery, then keep an eye on the voltage next time you come to start it as well. If running hasn't recharged the battery you've either got a dud one or a problem with the charging system (stator/reg/rec.) Check as many connections as you can get to as well to be safe.
     
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  10. I dunno mate. Ya try to tell 'em. What more can you do? :roll:
     
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  11. Incorrect. 12.9V is FINE as a float voltage. 14V out of a standing 12v nominal battery is not possible so discount that comment.

    Dropping 6.9V indicates a very high current drain somewhere.

    Have a read of this.

    http://www.engine-light-help.com/voltage-drop.html
     
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  12. You got jumper leads? To discount it being a battery issue, you could jump from a car battery to the bike.

    14v is what you should see during charging, not standing.

    12-12.9 (12.9 is really on the very good side of things)is the voltage a healthy battery should have, and a voltage drop when going to start is normal. (not sure if it should be quite that much but)

    Because of that it sounds like, as has been said, it might be a connection issue. Check your terminals first, then your earth ground point, followed by the positive generator/starter connection.. Although, if it is drawing high current, that is potenitally indicating connections are ok (a bad connection doesnt draw current so well)
     
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  13. I'll add to the voices of experience above. The click when you hit the starter is the Starter Solenoid activating, connecting the battery to the starter circuit. The fact that the bike doesn't turn over means that not enough power is being supplied to the starter motor.

    The two most common reason for a bike failing to start this way are:

    1. There is a bad connection in the starter circuit.
    The starter circuit includes the cables from the positive post of the battery to the solenoid, from the solenoid to the starter motor, from the starter motor to an earth point on the motorcycle (which may be via the starter motor mounting bolts), through the motor and/or frame, and finally from the main motorcycle earth point to the negative battery post via a cable or earth strap.

    Since you just cleaned the bike, it is likely that some cleaning solution got into a connection point in the above circuit, and increased the resistance in that connection enough that the starter motor wont turn over. The most common connection effected this way is the earth cable to main earth point on the motorcycle.

    The voltage drop to 6 Volts during attempted starts can indicate that the battery is nearing or at end of life. However, it can also be an indication of a bad connection. This is because while the starter motor is the main resistance in the starter circuit when it is running, when it is stationary it has a low resistance, being just that if the coils, which are essentially just directly connected wires. Therefore, when the voltage drop across a bad connection in the starter circuit causes the voltage supplied to the starter motor to be less than required to turn it over, the circuit actually draws more current from the battery than is required when operating correctly, and this can cause the measured voltage drop at the battery. This sounds the wrong way around, I know, but if the starter motor usually requires 30 Amps to run when it is turning over, but due to a bad connection is unable to turn over, it may draw 50 or 70 Amps, which is too much for a battery sized to provide 30 Amps.

    Note that while a bad connection may be the fault which finally caused the failure of the starter motor to turn over, an old weak or undercharged battery is likely also a contributor, as could be a weak charging system that isn't keeping the battery fully charged. Also, if the charging circuit has poor connections, this could make the charging circuit appear to be weak, when it is actually adequate.

    Also, while a bike with a bad connection in the starting circuit may be started successfully by jump starting from a car battery, this may be just hiding a bad connection problem, as the car battery may be able to sustain a higher starting current, or may have a higher standing voltage, and therefore be able to turn over the motorcycle starter. It is best to check for and fix any bad connections.

    To fix this problem, and as a required step in testing for a failed battery, disconnect and clean all the connections in the starter circuit described above. Do not just inspect them and refit, as a layer of corrosion may not be obvious, and may be the cause of resistance in the circuit. As mentioned above, use a wire brush, or emery/wet and dry sand paper to remove any and all corrosion, paint, sealer, cleaner residue and dirt. To protect against further corrosion, put some Dielecric Grease around each connection once it is refitted.

    2. The battery is old or damaged and is no longer capable of delivering sufficent current to turn over the starter motor.
    When batteries age they will usually no longer hold charge, which will be measurable as a drop in standing voltage. However, sometime the standing voltage is fine, but the battery simply cannot deliver the high current required, due to deterioration of the internal current paths.

    The only way to be absolutely sure that the battery can deliver the current required is to have is tested properly by a battery supplier. A good source of information about batteries is the Yuasa Technical Manual. Worth a read, since many bikes use Yuasa as OEM batteries. It will certainly confirm that a 12V lead acid battery with a standing voltage of 12.9 Volts is actually at or near 100% charge.

    Since you may not want to have the battery tested, or don't have a supplier nearby that you trust, the only way to be reasonably sure that the battery is the cause is to fix all connections, recharge the battery properly, and then test it again in the motorcycle. Note that one way to get a motorcycle battery tested properly so that you can trust the result is to take it to a supplier that only supplies car and truck batteries. They will probably charge a small fee, since there is no potential business in it for them, but you will know if the battery can sustain the required current. Find out what that current is before you take it for testing.

    In order to charge a battery properly, you need a good battery charger, preferably one with some intelligence and the capability to automatically recover a severely discharged battery. A $50 trickle charger will not do this. I recommend something like a CTEK charger. I use a Multi XS 7000 myself for my bike and cars. I like it because it can supply power to the vehicle while I disconnect or change batteries, and can recover badly discharged batteries, even extend the life of batteries by removing some sulphation with the Pulse Charge function. I have recovered a couple of batteries myself that were accidentally almost fully discharged, and they continued to work for their expected life time. I paid around $150 for my XS 7000, but I see they are over $200 now. However, a smaller XS 800 would work for a motorcycle. Other brands provide similar features.

    If you have fixed all connections, and fully charged the battery with an intelligent charger, and the bike still wont turn over, then it is likely that the battery is faulty and beyond its useable life. The only other real possibilities are a poor earth path through the bike, or a failed or failing solenoid, which is actually fairly uncommon.
     
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  14. Doubt if its the battery as well. Rode it , then cleaned it and now wont start ?. Grab 1 jumper cable ,turn ign on, go from + battery to starter. if it starts thers ya drama cane farmer.
     
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  15. Thanks for clearing that up, my bad.

    This was more my point. SOME voltage drop is normal, but not 50%
     
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  16. Plenty of batteries die, at this time of year, as the nights get colder.
     
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  17. aye like the one in my saab :/
     
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  18. That's where my money is.
     
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  19. Im going to check all these suggestions out today in the arvo, the shit thing about this is that the rego is due in a couple of days and cant ride it to the garage for a pink slip

    anyway will let you know where the money is at hopefully

    my bet is virgin blue VBA down to 28c/share is a bargain :LOL:
     
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  20. UPDATE!

    Checked all earth points and wiring, all looks good, charged battery, still doesn’t attempt to start, same shit a click at the starter solenoid, then big drain on the battery

    I have tried to push start the bike and all that happens is the rear wheel locks up and does a long skid

    the last thing i think may have done something was that i sprayed the carbies and some of the carby cleaner may have gone through the carbs and into the cylinder block, removed plugs and smelt the carb cleaner on them, put it all back together and again the click, could it be the starter motor, is the motor seized, help needed
    :cry:
     
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