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NSW No L Turn into Sussex St motorbike park

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by IdunBrokditAgin, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. Hi legal eagles,

    Just want to check whether a traffic offence ticket I got this mornring is legit.

    I was cited for turning left on a no left turn sign - a secondary alledged offence for riding on the footpath was not ticketed.

    In laymans terms I turned onto the footpath before the no left turn sign (not after) and manouvered my bike (whilst still sitting on it) to find a park space - I didn't notice a cop in the bike park who then asked me to stop and issued me a ticket.

    It was on the M4 distributor bus lane/ druit street where it joins sussex street (entering the large bike park down there).

    He did explain that had I got off the bike and pushed it onto the path he wouldn;t have tickted me.

    However, I found this thread in netrider which seems to allude that it is acceptable to enter the footpath, to park, under certain conditions:https://netrider.net.au/threads/riding-motorcycles-on-footpaths-some-clarification-vic.96086/

    I know this is Victoria road rules - does anyone know if this is the same in NSW?

    Also, as I left the road in order to park (rather than tunring left) before the no left turn sign is the "no left turn" ticket still legit?

    If it is legit then I'll rack it up to experience and just pay it - but I wanted to check to see if it was worth challenging it.

    Thanks in advance for any helpfull advice.
  2. #2 smileedude, Dec 12, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
    You talking about here? Came down past the 60 sign, went left to get the bike parking?
    https://maps.google.com/maps?q=druit st sydney&hl=en&ll=-33.873148,151.204125&spn=0.001639,0.00327&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.777825,107.138672&hq=druit st&hnear=Sydney New South Wales, Australia&t=m&fll=-33.872881,151.20478&fspn=0.001639,0.00327&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-33.873148,151.204125&panoid=ifn70feAH0qmEc0b7E3T2w&cbp=12,329.58,,0,5.02
    Otherwise you would have basically had to go straight, do a U-turn up the road and come back down into the bike parking?

    You got screwed over big time mate, what a carnt.

    As for Victorian rules they have footpath parking so it is different.
  3. Actually even in Victoria it's technically not legal to ride on the footpath. You're supposed to get off and push.

    Of course most people ignore that, including the cops, and riding at a sensible pace is usually tolerated. Of course it would only take one idiot to upset the balance and ruin it for everyone.
  4. You obviously did the wrong thing,you should have gotten off and carried it across the footpath,are we breeding stupid cops or what.Did he have this park staked out of this type of particular crime.
  5. #5 tony749, Dec 12, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
    Sorry for dodgy post ^, boss came along.

    If you were travelling east off the Western Distributor, they wrote up the wrong offence and I'd consider defending the ticket on the basis that you are not guilty of what you've been accused of. Having said that, this is NSW and it is quite likely the cop will lie under oath that he saw you turn left onto sussex street, and without corroborating evidence it's just your word against the cop's.
  6. Yup - that is exactly what it is - he's given me a ticket like I turned left onto a one way street (sussex street) when I actually left the road before then.

    I'm thinking I have a defense as I was only trying to access the parking area by theshortest possible route. But I'm just checkign my facts before I challenge it.
  7. That's the place. Cop was soso - a bit aggressive at first but then calmed down.

    I think he has given an incorrect ticket and also "let me off" on an offence I was innocent of "as I was aaccessing parkign form the shortest possible route".
  8. In which case if he lies and says you turned down Sussex St you can ask why he didn't give you a ticket for riding against a one-way street, a far worse offence.

    I'm putting this down as the worlds worst ticket. Make as much noise as you can about this. You did nothing wrong, if I had seen the cop I still would have done the exact same thing as you.
  9. Sounds like he hadn't had his coffee and doughnut and was in a bad mood.
    Time to tag Justus for the qualified answer.
  10. I would be inclined not to challenge or claim a defense, just let it go to court and plead not guilty. In court the cops have the burden of proof.

    If you write to SDRO to challenge the ticket they will say, "you're right, the cop did make an error, here is an amended ticket for riding on the footpath" and you're screwed.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. It's RECOMMENDED that you get off and push, from my understanding. However, whoever thinks that's a good idea has clearly never ridden because anyone who has would know you can control the bike much better when you're on it and using it how it's supposed to be used.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Agreed, but you can't say riding on a footpath is okay without setting some sort of limit on how fast is acceptable. So like I said, it only takes one idiot riding too fast (or one idiot cop thinking someone's riding too fast) to potentially spoil it for everyone.
  13. I'm not sure if this is a valid argument, but there are No Stopping signs along that stretch of "footpath". I would have thought if it says no stopping then moving would have to be allowed. If it has no stopping signs then it might not be classed as a footpath.

  14. Not so:

    288. Driving on a path
    (1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not drive on a path, unless subrule (2) or (3) applies to the driver.
    Penalty: 2 penalty units.
    Note Bicycle is defined in the dictionary, and path is defined in subrule (6).
    (2) A driver may drive on a path if the driver is—
    (a) driving on a part of the path indicated by information on or with a traffic control device as a part where vehicles may drive; or
    (b) driving on the path to enter or leave, by the shortest practicable route, a road related area or adjacent land and there is not a part of the path indicated by information on or with a traffic control device as a part where vehicles may drive;
    • Like Like x 2
  15. The no left turn bit is BS.
    As for riding on the footpath, does that parking area have any dedicated entrance you could have used instead?
    Did you go directly into the parking area or did you ride up along the footpath for a while?
    Every time we enter or leave a driveway we are essentially on the footpath so there can't be an issue if that was the only means of entering the parking area. If there was another alternative you might get done.
  16. Surely that's only applicable to crossing a footpath to get in/out of an off-street carpark though - not riding any distance down the length of a footpath to get to where you want to go. After all it doesn't say it's only applicable to motorcycles, but fairly sure if I drove my car down the footpath it wouldn't go down well with the cops.
  17. #17 Vertical C, Dec 12, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
    So your question relates to this offence
    ARR 91
    (1) If there is a no left turn sign at an intersection, or another
    place on a road, a driver must not turn left at the intersection
    or place.


    Maybe they would argue that the left turn that you commited includes the "place", your argument that you didn't turn left at the intersection might not be enough.

    Edit: But it is bs because the "vibe" of the sign is to stop people going the wrong way down the one way street, its not because they want to prevent turning traffic. But the law is an ass.
  18. Funnily enough I was just reading that exact same section is the NSW legislation, and thought the sam ething.
    I reckon that is the main reason the cop issued the ticket then - but I beleive that it is intended to prevent traffic entering the one way road (sussex street).

    Maybe I'll apply for clemency (as I saw the sign in reltion to teh one way street (i.e. not applying to me leaving the road at that point before the intersection).
  19. I doubt if you will get it overturned on the vibe unless you also have 10 years without a ticket.

    Though I would send the letter anyway as it is best to make them work for their money and you can earn interest on the cash in the meantime as you will get a new due date.
  20. Wrong brother. Read the thread I created that was highlighted in the first post.

    Pushing is a GUIDELINE not a rule. The rules states you may enter from the nearest entry to a road related area to park your bike. Or close enough anyway. Have a read. This keeps coming up.