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Ninja650 Gear Box Issue. Question Before Warranty Claim

Discussion in 'Technical and Troubleshooting Torque' started by Muppet, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. So i purchased a new 2015 Ninja 650 from Peter Stevens Ringwood.
    I have some issues and wanting to make a warranty claim with PS Melbourne but was after some thoughts before i get some bull shit response from PS.

    When looking to buy the bike PS Melbourne was SHOCKING. Crappy sales people ect. So im half expecting some BS from them when they look at the bike. I also figured PS mellbourne pissed me off enough to take my money else where. I can get one back by making them do warranty work on it :)

    I have been having this issue being unable to downshift (and only able to upshift one gear sometimes) while at a stand still.
    And yes im downshifting as i come to a stop as you would. Im talking after some emergency breaking when u dont have time to worry about downshift (As a learner anyway).

    happened a few times now. When iv had to anchor the brakes on, When i go to put bike back into first to take off again there is no resistance on the sift lever (only resistance of the return spring) And Wont shift down at all. Some times i can shift up a gear and then get down one or two but no often. Generally need to stall bike and keep shifting up and down before i can get gear box to shift gears again.

    Any thoughts on what would cause this on a bike with less than 4000Kms? Clutch issue? Box issue?

    Cheers for the help.
  2. Could be a box issue, a dragging clutch perhaps. That'd be a simple adjust. - Pursue it.

    4000 kays - has the bike had an oil change? Many bikes with "old oil" shift hard, and owners an improvement in the smoothness of their gearbox after a change. This would be amplified in a new engine/gearbox where there are likely to be a lot more particulates in circulation, making the clutch plates a little grippier than they would be with fresh clean oil. At any rate, if the bike has not had an oil change, I'd be doing it right now. It's a real good idea to have an early oil change on a new engine. See if it makes a difference

    I really don't know why you would want to go up gears at a standstill, but any gearbox should do it, up or down. A dragging clutch will effectively "hold on" to any gear engaged, making gear changes hard, if not impossible.
  3. Just as an aside, knocking it down gears should be part of emergency braking.
    Depends on the situation obviously, but that way you can take off again straight away if needed.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. try slipping the clutch while trying to change gear, with brake on and stopped.

    if the gears aren't moving, the dogs may not line up. by slipping clutch, you're trying to turn the gears, and it can find the next dog to let it engage..

    fwiw, my bike is same. clutch in and stopped, often won't go through gears, but a little slipping of clutch, it gets through no worries
  5. Yeah Oil was changed at 1000Ks. not due again until 12000k but planning on changing oil and filter at 6000ks. And im assuming gear box shares the engine oil?

    While i do agree 100% and always manage to down shift in car and even truck during emergency breaking. On the bike i tend to be a little more worried about not slamming into the side of the wanker who pulled out 5m in front of me and just grab the breaks and avoid lol.

    tried that last time it played up. No deal. I was only in 3rd at the time so ended up riding the clutch a little to get it moving cos the impatient wanker behind me was raging hard lol and when it was rolling again i could shift gear. but any higher then 3rd and i cant get it moving. After iv stalled it at a stand still its still hard to get a gear. Next time i might even try flinstoning the bike and see if that helps. providing its not been to mechanic yet.

    The bike is fitted with "positive neutral". I think thats what its called. When bike is at a stand still only gears u can get is Neutral and 1st. Its there to make it easy to find Neutral when at a stand still. Wont allow bike to go into 2nd. perhaps an issue with this system? Not allowing it to change?
  6. Are you sure its even broken?. My bike wont change gears (up or down) whilst stationary, unless you let the clutch in and out a tad to move / align the gears....

    Is this an issue during normal riding? Else, maybe you are chasing ghosts ?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Yep Muppet, gearbox and engine oil are shared.

    One of my bikes has a 12000 kay service interval and I'll always give it a change at half that (6 K). I always notice gearbox and clutch operation a little smoother after a change. Some motorbike owners report some variation between the operation of their gearbox and clutch depending on which brand of oil they use.

    Don't use oil with friction modifiers. These are no good for your clutch.
  8. I could be. One reason im asking the question. But iv tried slipping the clutch a little but been unable to get it go change a gear at a standstill leaving me stuck in 6th. Only ever happened once while riding. First time its played up. Was doing a rather steep hill climb. When i kicked it up a gear a got a gear grinding noise and then was unable to shift gears like iv stated above. After stopping the bike and playing around with shifter... then starting bike and playing with shifter accompanied with lots of swearing i finally got it to change gears again. At the time i put it down to me maybe poping the clutch to early or lack of oil around the gears due to the hill climb.
  9. Yeah as with my car i ALWAYS give it a midway oil filter service and will be doing same with bike. But as bike got 1000k service at a shitty mechanic he prob used vegetable oil for all i know :/
  10. I doubt it was lack of oil due to the pitch of the hill particularly on a road bike. Your gear box is on the bottom of the case and even on dry sump type engines, there is always oil there,if your engine has the right amount of oil in it.

    Be careful about forcing gears. Shift forks (the little arms inside the gearbox that move the gears) are not that meaty. They can be bent by forcing gears or during ham fisted assembly. Once bent, they cause hard shifting, or gears just "disappear" or worse. Expensive to fix, as the engine has to be removed from the frame, case cracked….

    Is it possible you've bent a shift fork by trying too hard? "Stomping" (as one might do with a heel) on a gear lever is way too hard. A recipe.
  11. #11 Muppet, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
    Na, as a former light vehicle mechanic i know how temperamental things can be. Sometimes i might give the shifter a little kick (nothing hard) and have never forced it into gear.
    Id doubt a bent shift fork cos 99% of the time the bike shifts like a dream. just this odd few times its played up.
  12. doesn't prevent finding other gears.. just prevents shift UP from Neutral to 2nd while stopped. should not prevent going down to neutral
  13. I understand that. was just my little theory due to having the issue while stopped. thought a gear box sensor may have been playing up.

    EDIT: just looked at the Quote. Nice to know how that system works lol.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Cheers for that link. Yeah thats more or less dead on what im getting. Or so maybe i am chasing ghosts after all. If its gear box design...

    Ill just start working on Break, avoid, Clutch, tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap. Then proceed to give finger to arse hole who made me brake. lol

    Cheers heaps for the info guys.
  15. Sounds normal to every bike to me. If you can't go down gears by slipping the clutch, simply turn off the engie then let out the clutch. Change down gears by rocking the bike forward and back.
  16. maybe practice changing up and down gears while moving at walking speed (or less) with slipping clutch

    there was a good video that explained it but can't find it now... edit, found it.. first vid below.
    basically, you need pressure on the shifter to make the gears go in, but it is movement of the shafts that aligns them to engage.. without some rotation, you'll be lucky to get through more than 1 gear?

    particularly about 2:40 onwards where he shows trying to go through many gears

    you can see here how large the dogs are, and why you need rotation to align them
  17. I'd have to say, I don't think your problem with the gears is unique. I get a similar effect if I roll into a servo and stop without changing down in the approach. Gear changes are always easy if the gears are moving and not loaded, not so if one is many gears out from what one would usually have it in at a given speed, even at some (very slow) speed. My habit is to slip the bike into neutral while still rolling when coming to a full stop when I want to be in neutral.

    I'd certainly endorse the "stop the bike and rock" approach to get back into neutral where I end up in 2nd or 3rd at a stop at the pump. I do it occasionally when I roll up without thinking (distracted) to get through all the gears and end up in a higher gear. I've always put it down to slight clutch drag, but would rather than adjust it out at the risk of moving my friction point too far so that it might slip in use, I've just left it. So long as there is no systematic clunk and big jerk on engaging, where it feels like it wants to pull away after engaging 1st and gears engage smoothly when changing, I'll leave it as is.

    There can be quite a variation in how motorbike gearboxes feel, how smooth they are and how tolerant they are of rev mismatch when changing gears. Treat them all as though they are "non-synchro" by careful rev matching during gear changes and it is all good.
  18. #19 Muppet, Mar 2, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
    Ok had a bit of a play while waiting for a soccer mum to repeatedly fail at reversing her Prado into a parking spot at safeway. Seem to have it down pat. While it wtill work downshift if bike is still. if i rock it back and forth a little (ever so slightly) and slips right down the gears.

    As i dont know shit about bikes and am rather new to riding them was a little worried lol.

    Cheers for the help guy.
  19. It doesn't cost PS if they do a warranty claim. They get it back from the manufacturer. If it is a warranty claim you'll need them to make the case with Kawasaki. If you do have to deal with them, Ringwood is better than the city.