Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

News: VicRoads motorcycle job, but knowledge of riding not r

Discussion in 'Motorcycling News' at netrider.net.au started by ForumBot, Aug 9, 2006.

  1. VicRoads is looking for a "Program Consultant - Motorcycle Safety", but "knowledge of motorcycling and safety issues" is only desirable, not a key requirement to the job! Are they for real?

    ... more




    This is an automated posting of a new news item added to Netrider News by Netrider.
     
     Top
  2.  Top
  3. Obviously a typo, Vicroads couldnt possibly be that dumb could they....... ok yeah youre right. Shouldnt this be in the jokes section? Shame Vicroads shame. :(
     
     Top
  4. Or if the OP of this thread used https://netrider.net.au/forums/search.php there wouldn't have been either :wink:


    ehehehe. Seriously though, with :

    Announcements and News
    Official Netrider announcements and news items.


    Would a Vicroads job be classified as an official netrider or news item :idea:

    Im dozing off now, needed 2 mogadons again to get me to sleep.. so ZzZZzZ for me!
     
     Top
  5. :roll: Then it wouldn't have been a front page news item


    :roll: It's a news item .. and if you read the news article, it's not just a VicRoads job.
     
     Top
  6. It's shocking, thats for sure.
     
     Top
  7. Guys,

    I'm also looking for a OH&S rep to come to my workplace.

    OH&S safety knowledge required, but not essential...

    what is essential though, is that you've been working somewhere else where you don't know what you're doing... that will help you get the job

    not really looking for an OH&S rep to my work anyway :p
     
     Top
  8. Read my comment on the home page, at bottom of the article.
     
     Top
  9. you know I'm not too sure it's that bad.
    It certainly sounds terrible on the surface.
    but
    does the health minister need in-depth knowledge of surgical procedures in order to make well informed decisions about the direction of the health portfolio.
    (insert other bad analogies here)

    likewise, having a fanatical motorcyclist in this position is potentially more harmful then good. Sure you could believe they would be a little more clued in with extreme safety issues. but in other areas (lane splitting, city parking, road conditions) their love for motorcycling would provide a lack of impartiality - or at least the appearance of.
    this would be catastrophic since their suggestions would be taken as damaged goods, and therefore less seriously.

    It can quick quickly be ascertained when reading netrider that the community group of motorcyclists are not exactly balanced in their opinions of car drivers. Sure they're often just blowing off steam. but having a rep who reflects the community opinion of netrider - without the ability to remain impartial - would damage the political influence such a rep would otherwise have.

    do you really think the saftey issues for motorcyclists are that complex? you could explain them in a day. dot point form. what is vastly more difficult is having the political sway to insigate effective change for the better
     
     Top
  10. The health minister has many knowledgable advisors giving the in-depth support he needs. This role is for an in-depth knowleagble advisor to support VicRoads ... without requiring any knowledge!

    So what's easier and best .. find a professional that is knowledgeable and can advise without personal emotion ... or just accept anyone that can't advise at all because they don't even know the subject matter?


    Any decision at all, from someone without knowledge is taken less seriously.

    Do you, as a rider, know them all .. and the policies/programmes that should be implemented to mitigate them?

    *cough* Yeah .. it's that easy to understand the impacts on motorcyclists. Obviously thats what VicRoads thinks too .. and why the riders injuries and fatalaties are on an increasing rate.

    No .. what is most difficult is to have the knowledge and capacity to understand the issues, provide workable solutions for them ... then have the sway to instigate the change. Without the knowledge and understanding, what changes are you supposed to instigate?
     
     Top
  11. this is mainly a managerial implementation role. I would contend that having strong management ability far outweighs the knowledge. Who gives a rat ass if somebody knows lots about saftey but fails to manage its implementation (the brendon Nelson syndrome). I would contend that you could get up to speed pretty quickly on the safety. and they probably don't want to cut their pool of quiality managers.

    in other words:
    how many good managers, with motorcylce saftey knowledge exist?

    you've all panned them for not needing knowledge in this area but i bet nobody here knows how large the "saftey" profession is. Maybe they have identified that there won't be many who have the relevant knowledge?

    just because we ride doen't mean we know anything about motorcycle saftey nor the best strategies. We posture and we guess. but rarely do we have hard facts (wire rope barriers anybody?)

    if you put it as a key selection criteria and none meet the criteria, you can't emply anyone regardless of how good they would be for the job which is even worse. since then you have nobody implementing saftey.

    Obviously ideally you would want all criteria filled. But they've obviously thought that they can't sit around on the cash waiting for some knowledgable motorcycle safety expert to come along.


    no but i put a good bet that in a month I'd know the relevant programmes available and would have built a list of relevancies to australia.


    this job requires work within a team presumably the knowledge base of the team will provide the initial knowledge for the team

    I don't think it is ideal but know nothing of the safety employment market and I do think that consistently resorting to ministerials is a huge overreaction which will prove tiresome in the end especially if it turns out that the number of qualified motorcycle safety experts (with the ability to effectively manage) approaches zero.

    as Vic said in another thread. victim mentality. They aren't all out to get us.

    likely they've even thought about the situation carefully.
     
     Top
  12. Go through the job spec, which is in detail at

    http://vicroads.bigredsky.com/inclu...&Key=44cff307839ed&DisplayAs=inline&Metrics=n

    The role is a project manager role. Detailed knowledge of the area is not really required. There's been enough projects I've managed/worked on where I've had little or no domain experience until half-way through the project, and amazingly, most of them were successful :)

    Number 5 is where all information is coming from. This person's role is to collate this information.

    And for the second bit.

    Check under major activities to actually see what this person will be doing.

    I'd actually think being a motorcyclist would almost be a hinderence in this role, as an impartial project manager should be doing it. At the same time the person can't hate motorcyclists.
     
     Top
  13. No, because the Ministers role is not (supposed to be) to apply his knowledge and experience of the subject to administering the health system. That's what the advisor system is for.
    This is more akin to having business managers making operational decisions about what treatment hospital patients should have.
    ....oh wait... that's what's happening NOW :roll:
     
     Top
  14. Think of it from the point of view of the person doing the interviewing.

    You have to tick off all the key requirement boxes before giving someone the job. If you give it to someone who didn't meet every last one of the requirements, your decision might well be challenged by an unsuccessful candidate.

    What's happened here is that they don't want to find themselves bound to exclude someone who's got brilliant road safety/policy qualifications just because they don't ride a motorcycle. In other words, by not having "motorcycle experience" as a key requirement they're giving themselves some wriggle room.

    And it might be better to have someone in the position who's outstanding when it comes to road safety (but doesn't ride), rather than someone whose qualifications and abilities are mediocre but rides a bike.
     
     Top
  15. I LOVE this bit:
    In other words, "You DO know what we want you to say, don't you? You DO know on which side your bread is buttered?"

    Slice of conspiracy pie, anyone? :p
     
     Top
  16. I've been contracting to the government for a while now.

    You'll be amazed at how many projects are started because the Minister announced it in a speech. A few collegues were scrambling like crazy because the Minister announced something was going to go live in 2 years, and we're talking about a major tens of millions dollar project here.

    At the same time priorities change very quickly, and some get dropped because of a new ministerial directive.

    Gets even more interesting when the Minister changes or a new Director General comes in :)
     
     Top
  17. Well peeps,

    I took it upon myself to call "Barry" at Vicroads to find out some info regarding the position.

    I queried whether it was more of a managerial role and what was it excately (in finer detail) they were after...
    Its not necessarily a managerial role and they would look highly upon someone with a tertiary qualification... He stated that i didnt matter what the qualification was, they could later find ways to implent the candidates qualification into the role... <<< What the? What a sh!t mentality....

    I also questioned why is it only "desirable" to have motorcycle knowledge or experience...
    Reponse, its not necessary in the role and its more based on project management etc etc...

    I lost interest, thanked him for his time and here i am...

    There you go...
    My 2 cents worth :p
     
     Top

  18. funnily this is the bit that got me into this topic.

    it seems like every week we are all up in arms about something. Protest rides for this, angry letters for that.

    you can only engage in these activities before you earn a bad reputation. something that results in the requirement for the line: "appreciation of the political contexts "

    i firmly believe that these sorts of complaints should be left for truly important matters. (e.g. woman hitting motorcyclist driving off leaving him to di then getting her license back)

    firing off a letter to you minister becasue they had "have knowledge of motorcycling " in the wrong column is ridiculous to the extreme.
     
     Top
  19. Point well taken Russ. You interpret the phrase in a different way than I might. I freely admit to a highly suspicious nature when it comes to our political system... and I might well be wrong.
    (...or the rats are very good at hiding the evidence :wink: )

    I counter however, that we as a community (and I mean Netrider in particular this time) might whinge and biatch about policy and such, but we also take positive steps to improve our own lot. Mentor scheme, for example. Fundraising activities. That sort of thing. It's not all gloom and doom. A lot harder to find things that "authorities" have done for us that we as a group are pleased with, IMHO.
     
     Top