Welcome to Netrider ... Connecting Riders!

Interested in talking motorbikes with a terrific community of riders?
Signup (it's quick and free) to join the discussions and access the full suite of tools and information that Netrider has to offer.

VIC New Vicroads Website with motorcycle safety technology database

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by robsalvv, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/saferbikes

    Vicroads has launched a new website directed at motorcycle safety and letting you the rider know what bikes have what rider technology.

    It is accompanied with the following video supporting ABS.

    • Like Like x 1
  2. 9 metres? Where did they pull that stat from?
  3. Outta their.........
    Where most gov motorcycle stats come from.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Awww... I wanted to argue.... ;)

    itchin bet me to BJPitt's reply! +1 on that.

    All I know is that bikes must have better ABS than what cars do. I know that I can stop in a shorter distance if I disable my ABS as opposed to having it active. (No joke). The ABS seems to kick in too soon, when the front tires still have more grip available. (Not sure if they go when the first wheel skids which is probably a back wheel).
  5. #5 Jaytee, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
    It would appear they got the info from an old 2002 report, that Spokes use for "Why do i need ABS"

    Closed circuit testing by Vavryn and Winkelbauer (2004) has shown that stopping distances can be reduced by between 5% and 10% and that deceleration rates can be improved by 18% and 35% when comparing ABS with non ABS motorcycles.

    Consider the example of a rider with average experience travelling at 100km/h. An estimated braking distance of 58.5 metres is needed to bring the motorcycle to a complete stop in this scenario. With the same bike and rider but the addition of ABS the distance is reduced to 49.5 metres, a reduction of 9 metres in the stopping distance.


    *Source: Kuratorium fur Verkehrssicherheit, Wien, 2002

    The effectiveness of ABS does vary according to the conditions, with the advantage of ABS being greater in wet or lower grip situations (i.e. loose road surfaces), than in dry high grip conditions.

    Source: Motorcycle ABS | Spokes Site
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Interesting study. I wonder why that is. In theory - I would have thought (provided that someone had the right braking technique) that a consistent break (without skidding) would have been far better than one that pulsated between gripping / skidding and releasing, and rebraking again.

    Is that because it's too difficult for most people on bikes to judge where that perfect break pressure is and consistently change as the speed and contact patch changes, or because we are a little too scared to pull in the front brake to that level?
  7. Well gee, I guess if your idea of emergency braking is to lock up your brakes then you WILL take longer to stop.
    I don't recall the last time I saw a rider lock up, and I haven't done it myself in the last decade or so. But I suppose it does happen.
  8. The study also assumes the rider on both bikes has the same skill level and reaction time. NO point in having ABS if if takes you longer to react :p

    ABS should be a last resort , not something you rely on.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. My own personal exp with abs is if the road condition is not optimum they will stop you safely in an emergency stop. In good conditions modulating the brakes with your own skill i feel will stop you quicker. I had to take to the gravel a fee weeks back when a cager came on my side of the road i stopped on the gravel and didnt stack whilst having grabbed a hand full of brakes.
  10. ABS is probably handy in a panic grab situation ... but hopefully that doesn't happen too often because the rider has excellent hazard detection skills and avoids those situations. Good braking technique should mean ABS is not activated under normal conditions anyway.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Regarding the highlighted, that is potentially true of older ABS systems and a very well practised rider. You will be pushing to out brake cutting edge multi input ABS these days.
  12. On that site, there is no mention at all that I could see of Hi-Vis.
  13. Apparently, "The rider does not have confidence to stop quickly"

    Perhaps he should improve his riding skills. Why are we substituting technology for awareness and competence?

    Also, to me, the rider of the non-abs bike seems to brake only after the other one started. Is that just my perception?
  14. I pulled up a month ago - really quickly, no abs kicked in but I knew if I had to squeeze harder, abs was there as a backup. So perhaps it helped me, even though it did not operate.
    I don't consider myself an expert in braking or most other riding skills either.
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  15. Never got mine to activate either. Must give it another go now my tires are no longer new.
  16. I was going to mention this as well, but I figured it was so obvious, that they are tying into - "The rider does not have confidence to stop quickly"...
  17. "One of these riders is 45% more likely to be involved in a serious crash"

  18. You just can't see it through the tinted visors ;)
    • Like Like x 1
  19. #19 Spots, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
    I'd wager a little of column A and a little of column B. Nailing the right amount of brake pressure on the front and rear brakes and continuously adapting it to changing road surface conditions in an emerging emergency situation will be challenging. The penalty for exceeding the available traction is a rapidly-impending lowside - which might dissuade people from braking as hard as grip will allow.

    "Yes". Maximum deceleration occurs when the rubber-tyred wheels are turning just slightly slower than the road is passing beneath them, i.e. ~20% slip. If a skilled rider could hold it right on the optimum amount of deceleration, they'd do better than a machine that's alternating between braking above/below that figure.

    That said, ABS units aren't waiting for a total lockup and skid to occur. The reason the marketing material for ABS says that the systems "detect an impending skid" is because among other things, they're looking for an impossibly high rate of deceleration. If the sensors see a wheel's rotation slowing down at (say) 2G deceleration, they know the wheel's exceeded available friction and can release and reapply before the wheel stops spinning; i.e. before it becomes a skid. They back off, let the wheel speed up again, then ramp up the pressure once more.

    We tend to see modern ABS cars oscillating around the peak-deceleration figure as they release and reapply. Here's a Vericom-recorded ABS stop in my 2013 car from 50kph - the blue line is the deceleration (down = more deceleration). Oscillating between ~0.9G and ~1.1G.

    And here's what a typical locked-wheel car skid looks like for comparison. Starting off at ~1G but decreasing to around 0.7G once the skid develops:

    I really ought to strap our Vericom test unit to my motorcycle some day and see what sorts of figures I can get out of it. Maybe after I take the knobblies off - though that would be an interesting comparison in itself. Karoo3 knobblies vs Battlewing 90/10 tyres. Hmmm.....
    • Informative Informative x 3
  20. Whilst watching this video , and its a funny one at that (for when you're super busy at work :sneaky:), i saw this poor chap at 1:03 in the video.

    I'm assuming he did not have ABS (he may have though, hard to tell) however it illustrates what could happen (forget about locking the back wheel).