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NSW Negligent driving fine

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by yeders, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. Hi guys,

    interesting: I left the shopping centre (woolies), at about 9pm tonight (sunday night), went out of the carpark, it was practically empty, and i was in a slight rush to get to work by 9 (few mins up the road), so i quickly (above parking lot speed limit) get out of the lot and onto the main road, get up to speed quickly go around a few round abouts, at higher then normal "recommended speed" , start to notice that a car is at distance behind me but has caught up relatively quickly, get on campus, still being followed, yet more aggressively now. get to my building, cops pull up behind me. no lights, no sirens, nothing.

    so they get out of the car, ask for license and "do you have an engineering cert. for the exhaust?". I replied, "it came with the bike, didn't know that I needed one". "did you notice us following you?" "yes from after the roundabouts"... .. then he started to say that i should ride more careful, im not a 17yr old hoon (im 21), and that i should be more responsible, and that he saw me "fly" through the car park, and that i could've hit someone. (it was 9pm dead quiet). and that he's issuing me with a neg. driving fine, but could hit me with "4 others and didnt want to spend too long writing them out".

    he didn't flash his lights? didn't get a radar reading? otherwise he would've got me for speeding? he didn't tell me that i went through a giveway/stop sign without giving way/stopping. (i didn't do this either).
    So whats the deal with that?

    I feel like calling a few numbers tomorrow and getting advice, thought I'd voice it here and get your opinion. I'm keen to contest as its $3XX, 3 pts and I'm on my rider-p-plates, full car license.

    Thoughts anyone?
    thanks :D
  2. That SUX , but I think if you contest it it'll boil down to "your word against his" scenario. Don't let me discourage you and DO get legal advice ( some give it free first visit/phone I think).
  3. ^ wot 'e said, gov, get some legal advice, sounds like they were just bored and needed to fill up their quota before they headed off to MacDonalds for their healthy dinner :roll:.
  4. Get some legal advice on this one: because I think you should approach it with a view to contest.

    Neg driving is a bullshit fine: they give it to you if a kangaroo hits you and you can't ride your bike home.
    It's like the "Get some money and a charge on record for this" fallback position.

  5. I think neg drive wouldn't hold up in court.

    He should have given you "speed dangerous".

    so if you take it to court, a good lawyer should be able to get you off (I wouldn't try defending this without a lawyer).

    But you may be slapped with the speed dangerous offence after you walk out of the court. The bad part about that is the time frame to issue you with a ticket will have passed and that means the cop has to drag you down the station, fingerprints etc.

    So there is a risk and a cost in challenging this one.
  6. I think the qualification for Negligent Driving is something along the lines of 'drive in a way that a normal driver wouldn't'... I think that a normal driver would drive over the speed limit of an empty carpark, and quickly around a roundabout, and quickly on the street...

    It is true that the cops do use it as a catch-all rather than issue individual fines... but I also think they use it when they don't know exactly what you did wrong, but they didn't like it anyway...

    Up to you whether you choose to fight it in court... despite what everyone says, I don't think that writing a letter works anymore, unless you can prove that you didn't do the offense (wrong date or time or something)...

    If you do go to court, you have to plead innocent... if you plead guilty or guilty with an explanation, you still wear the points and the offense on your record (but may get out of the $3xx)...

  7. Even that isn't enough sometimes. My brother got a ticket in the mail, alleging an offence at Centennial Park in Sydney. He sent back a letter saying he was in Coffs Harbour for work, sign on sheet confirms he started work there 5 minutes after the time indicated on the ticket, had Stat Dec from employer and everything.

    They sent back a letter saying they'd investigated and the ticket was valid, if he wanted to contest it he'd have to do it in court. Sure he didn't have proof for the exact time of the offence but you'd think proving you'd need to travel at Mach 5 or have a teleporter handy would be enough. Hasn't been to court yet but I can't see him having much trouble getting out of it when he does.
  8. My though is that 21yo P plate rider is still classified as a hoon. Silver car license doesn't impress a judge.

    i'm nearly 28, I have a gold license on car and bike, and mostly drive very sedately, but i sometimes give a squirt after checking the road conditions and the mirrors, etc. People will still call me a hoon for it too.

    I recall a thread here where an older guy got done on his brand new 1098. Guess what... a hoon.

    Contest the Neg driving charge or not... pretty much all of us are looked at by the police (and judges) as hoons and this will not change.

    My advice is to get where you're going safely/legally and apologise for being late. Either that or start out earlier. That's what a judge expects a 'reasonable' person to do. No excuses unfortunately.

    These days when everyone seems to be in a hurry, i noticed two things that had a huge affect on my riding/driving.

    1) Turn off the music. It just makes you go faster.
    2) Don't sweat about being late. People will get over it.

    GL with the charge and hope you come out of it wiser, no matter the outcome.
  9. They don't compare you to 'normal'.

    They compare you to 'reasonable'. There's no such thing as a reasonable hoon (well not according to the legal system anyway), no matter how normal they may be.
  10. A bit of a necro of this thread, but;

    I am on the Board of Directors of a Charity that provides services to children with learning difficulties or disabilities, and their families.

    As part of the services that the charity provides, the charity owns a pre-school, and because I am a Director I am a licensee of that pre-school. Because I am a Licensee, I have to go through the 'working with children' assessments.

    Filling in the paperwork, I have to tick 'yes' in the 'have you ever been convicted of an offense' box, because more than 15 years ago I got a 'Neg Driving' ticket, penalty greater than $200.

    My offense was having a car pull out from the gutter without indicating, without looking (his admission to me, not the cops), talking on his phone, and crash into me as I was turning into a driveway.

    So just accepting a dubious 'Neg Driving' ticket isn't the same as accepting a dubious speeding ticket... 15 years down the track it could still bite you on the @rse...

  11. yeah, but when you say 'yes' on those forms you are asked to provide details.

    If you write "I was booked for a traffic offense 15 years ago" its not considered in the same way as saying "I was booked for a violent or sexual crime X years ago"

    Truth is, he technically was negligent as a 'reasonable' person would not drive like that even if every other knob on the road does, but doesn't get caught for it.

    Oh, if any of you meet this fabled 'reasonable' person.... kill them so they don't have anyone to measure us against :twisted: :LOL:

    Necro?? WTF, this thread is two days old!
  12. If you were doing a bit of Michael Hutchence stuff with a layday and it goes a little too far in the heat of the moment... but you shag her anyway, she is still dead... dead is dead, 1 minute or 1 decade and don't forget it...

    Love your dead girlfriend, but don't Luuuuve your dead girlfriend... :LOL:

  13. I've been to court several times and the magistrate will take the word of the officer over yours any day. So unless you have proof that you're innocent, you'll lose. As others have stated, you could get a lawyer but that would cost at least $2000 and no guarantee that you'll win either... My advice, just cop it sweet and pay the $300 fine. Remember that if you take it to court, the magistrate may increase the penalty... Not worth it in my opinion...
  14. interesting...

    thanks for your input guys. I'll probably write a letter requesting to be told more precisely what I did wrong and go from there.

    I will probably defend myself, court costs aren't that much, but I don't really think that spending more money on a lawyer is worth it. I'm close enough friends with a few graduated law students.
  15. You could always go the :

    I sped across the car park as there was a small gang of teenagers watching me intently as I walked out of coles and I wanted to put some distance between me and them.

    Then just as I get out on the road and settle down I notice a car speeding up and following me, so thinking it could of been the same group from the supermarket I sped up again to get into the relative safety of my uni and its security.

    The police didn't identify them selfs with their vehical flashing lights or other means till they got out of the car and approached me, till that moment I was in fear for my personal safety.
  16. Nope not true. I've been to court many times to.
    (i) The magistrate will believe whoever comes across as honest, (NOT always the police).

    This is where a skilled advocate comes in. Thier job is to condense your whole story into a 5 minute summary, point out your strong points and the police weak points, and paint an alternative picture that fits the facts.

    (ii) its up to the Police to prove thier case (your guilt), not your job to prove innocence.

    Depending on the matter $1-2k is appropriate. (Thats a simple plea hearing or simple charge).
    There is NEVER a guarantee, but, a solicitor can vastly ease the pain.
    It might only be a $300.00 fine, and in this case I agree wear it, but in some cases whilst the $ value is low, the damage to a persons life can be vast. In these cases where a jail term, suspended sentence, loss of licence etc is involved the $$ are not the issue.
  17. I'd have to agree with this one.
  18. I don't agree with this statement at all.

    Perfectly reasonable people drive through empty carparks at greater than the 10 Kph all the time. Riders "hook" through roundabouts all the time, at the speed limit, while cars need to slow down. A non-riding Police Officer is no judge of what can reasonably and safely be done on a motorcycle. If he was speeding, they should have charged him with it. If they think he was speeding, but couldn't prove it, they should have given him a verbal warning.

    I could go on, but as long as people accept that sort of charge and just pay up, it will continue to be used by the Police when they don't like someone's actions, even though those actions endangered no-one, or the person charged was not at fault at all. (Hit a kangaroo.)

    I would take it to court, with a lawyer, and when I won, I would request the judge for an official censure of the Officer, his Sergeant, and any other Police Officer who insisted that the charge be enforced.
  19. I was on a ride with a large group of Netriders about 3 years ago - Minna was present.

    We were riding through a outter suburb melbourne town. Tyres were warm and the round-about ahead looked inviting. So, I crank it through the round-about. When I exit, I return to the speed limit - honest.

    Well, a police car comes beside me at the next couple of lights and motions me to pull over - I do. He then states I was going through the round-about quickly... I state.. "I was obeying the speed limit".....

    What happened - license checks for all 11 of us and a good chat. The reason, they cant prove I was dangerous and they have ho evidence to being out of control of speeding or being wreckless. the key is EVIDENCE. :grin:
  20. im with stupid ^^^
    the fact they have no evidence, simply their word that you were "being negligent", yet you maintained control of your vehicle at all times, you were not speeding, you did not lose traction, crash or cause another vehicle to crash, or cause any injury, simply says to me you were riding with control and not being negligent. im no judge, but hey.

    also, tramp or others, if the defendant is successful, can they ask the OPP to pay their court costs, due to wasted time etc? i sure wouldnt like to pay say $1k to prove im innocent when i am all along, thus its a cost you dont deserve to begin with. :?