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NSW Neg Driving - warming tyres

Discussion in 'Politics, Laws, Government & Insurance' started by DeepWater, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. Hey Guys,

    It's been years since I've used this forum, though after getting stung by the police today, I was hoping to get peoples opinions.

    This morning I was on the way to the gym, roughly 2km from my place, for roughly 20 or so metres, I was leisurely warming up the tyres, nothing agressive, at this point a police car heading the other direction hits the lights and a police officer is running towards me telling me to pull over to my surprise.

    I was being as polite as I could questioning why I was pulled over and he was being ever so aggregate and rude saying he's booking me for neg driving. The more I questioned why I was in the wrong, the more irritated he got and threatened me with writing a letter to the RMS for them to review my licence and have me sit the course again. I thought this was absurd and questioned if he got out of the wrong side of the bed in the morning (big mistake!), then he went over my bike and threatened to defect me if I wouldn't cooperate. While this was going on highway patrol came and so I had four cops standing around me.

    Now I've often seen such events on youtube and have always thought, the guy must of been a retard to have that many cops surrounding him, but this was by no means the case!!!

    Now I wish to take this to court and fight it, as I don't believe I was in the wrong, but my problem is;

    a) The cop car didn't have a dashboard camera, so it's their word against mine
    b) It was an inspector that pulled me over (use to be HP for 10yrs) and his side kick was a Sargent
    c) It was road works where I was doing it, though even he admitted I wasn't speeding

    I went back later and spoke to a few of the tradies who were working there, they all agreed the cop was agressive about the situation, but unforunately no one saw the events leading up to me getting pulled over, so I can't get anyones statements.

    I want to go to court, though I don't want to get bent over seeing I believe it will come down to he said, she said and the cop will win, which I believe is a grave injustice! It's more pride fueling my anger.

    Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated !!!



  2. Unlucky mate. Make the decision when you've cooled off though. Any court case could end up costing a load more money and more stress than just paying the original fine. Although you could write a letter saying you don't think its correct, but given the offence is not visually recorded you may well end up in court anyway - stress, $$ etc. My 2c worth only, there are better legally trained forum members who will be able to give you best advice...
  3. Cheers mate, yeah I'm trying to cool off though I just find the matter infuriating, mainly cause I believe his word will be conceded golden over mine.

    Part of me completely agrees with you I should just pay it, but my pride is getting in the away also, haha. If I believe I was completely in the wrong, ie speeding, I'd just pay it and move on, though I don't believe this is the case with this fine...especially just learning that the ticket will be something like $415 !!! (He's mailing me out the infridgement, so I just had a look on the RMS site).
  4. I wouldn't assume that he would lie in court. He will give his version of what happened which will be very similar to yours. You were swerving from one side of the road to the other. It's up to the court to decide if that constitutes neg driving.

    If he didn't give you the TIN there is a small chance he might have only intended on scaring you. Fingers crossed.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Can't understand why anyone would need to warm tires for a road ride and especially only for 2Ks.
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  6. should get a set of warmers and put them on after you ride untill you ride again
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. #7 DeepWater, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2014
    The problem is, his story already has varied, it first he stated I was swerving between both the blocked off lane and the allowed lane (it's a two late street though one was blocked off for road works), which was a blatant lie as at no point did I leave the correct lane I was in. Then he changed it and agreed I was just swerving in the one lane. But of course this wasn't recorded so he can deny changing his story.

    Granted, but like I said, I wasn't violently doing so, and we had to do so any way, as due to the road works, we had to go from the left lane, to the right lane and back a few times. As at different junctions in the road they were working on opposite sides.

    To deem such driving negligent is idiotic, I was only doing 40km/s, it's not like it was high speed, nor dangerous.
  8. for roughly 20 or so metres, I was leisurely warming up the tyres
    Define this,I expect you were weaving side to side like the GP boys do?
    Anything that attracts there attention is smart to avoid,like shacking your head.
    That got me a stiff talking to,some believe there doing playground duty.
    Good luck with this,they get payed doesn't matter if there being over the top or not,not good for you.
    I was a happy camper as the wanker who took exception to my head shaking didn't get his pen out,they have a lot of power with your license in there hand and some love to use it.
  9. Kind of hard to define, it was only a gentle lean, I was still very upright, not GP material that's for sure!

    Wow, they pulled you over for that, I thought mine was bad enough! Lol. I would of thought the very worse I would get was a stern would too, but nope, no dice!

    So with that being all said, would you guys cop it on the chin, or fight with the risk of a greater fine?
  10. He can lie, but he risks his career and jail if he does, and he knows this. Getting you booked is doubtfully strong enough motivation to risk that.

    "warming tires was a bad choice of words" it makes you sound like a GP racer.

    L platers are taught to move in their lane to increase their visibility. In a work zone your visibility is important and you were trying to make yourself easily seen.
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  11. Wankers warm their tyres on the road, even bigger wankers say "Must have been cold tyres..." when they stack it.

    So your swerving left to right in a road works zone where the limit is reduced due to the additional road hazards, road plates, gravel and debris on the road, narrower lanes and everything else that goes on in road work zones and your worried about "cold tyres" fcuk me dead.

    you got what you deserve, if you do go to court post up which local court it is so I come and watch its bound to be a laugh as the magistrate rips you a new one.
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  12. #12 DeepWater, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2014
    Yeah that wording would of been better, and more accurate of what was taking place, though hindsight is a biatch, haha

    No need to troll mate.
  13. No troll, do you want the truth or for everyone to blow smoke up your arse and feel sorry for you?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Truth mate, though your comments don't really depict the situation, maybe as I haven't gone into the detail of the road situation, but there was zero road hazards, road plates, gravel and debris on the road, narrower lane, etc. Well, unless you call witches hats a hazard.
  15. I don't know, I ride thousands of km's each year and never have issues with coppers.

    I tend to believe the copper pulled you over because you were acting like a fool on the road, and now your looking for a way or support to get you out of the hot water.

    ~$400 odd bucks and 3 points is gonna hurt will you lose your license?
    • Like Like x 1
  16. I like the idea of 'moving within your lane to increase visibility', but it depends what you told the cop at the time.
    Get professional advice.
  17. Mate I'm very much in the same boat, have been riding 11yrs and do many km's every year. I would also agree that if a cop pulled someone over they would of been a fool on the road, but in this case, I am adamant this was wrong.

    I'm actually not looking for support, nor a shoulder to cry on, merely advice on what others think I should do. Ie fight it with a lawyer or defend myself...or just cop it on the chin.

    Nah mate, won't lose my licence, still have a lot of points, just more so annoyed that I strongly believe it's an injustice.
  18. #18 mainstage, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
    Unlucky mate just pay the $400 road tax and move on , if you take this to court it will cost you a lot more than $400 plus your time off work and stress , the odds are not in your favour. Don't let your pride get in the way , Also that warming up the tyres think is waste of time on the road . Good luck
    NB are there points involved loss of licence ? Edit see next page :)
  19. You need the actual road rule you are being infringed against and you need its specific wording. Then you know whether you have a chance.

    Google gives me this for Neg driving in NSW:

    117 Negligent, furious or reckless driving
    (cf STM Act, s 42)
    (1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a road negligently. Maximum penalty:
    (a) if the driving occasions death-30 penalty units or imprisonment for 18 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence), or
    (b) if the driving occasions grievous bodily harm-20 penalty units or imprisonment for 9 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence), or
    (c) if the driving does not occasion death or grievous bodily harm-10 penalty units.​

    (2) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a road furiously, recklessly or at a speed or in a manner dangerous to the public. Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units or imprisonment for 9 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence).

    (3) In considering whether an offence has been committed under this section, the court is to have regard to all the circumstances of the case, including the following:
    (a) the nature, condition and use of the road on which the offence is alleged to have been committed,
    (b) the amount of traffic that actually is at the time, or which might reasonably be expected to be, on the road,
    (c) any obstructions or hazards on the road (including, for example, broken down or crashed vehicles, fallen loads and accident or emergency scenes).​

    (4) In this section:
    "grievous bodily harm" includes any permanent or serious disfigurement.​

    I can't see how the prosecution could convince a magistrate of such a charge against your gentle slalom, especially if you have a good lawyer and an expert witness to draw upon. Given that street bikes can attain 50deg lean angles at speed and still hold on, a gentle slalom with gentle to moderate lean angles is hardly furious or reckless.
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  20. Great post mate, thanks! Would it be worth getting a lawyer or defend myself? Has anyone done either? (I'm a court virgin, lol)