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Nearly took myself out and a pedestrian out today!

Discussion in 'General Motorcycling Discussion' started by nicholas, Jun 20, 2006.

  1. Heres the situation

    Im riding in the left hand lane towards an intersection with green lights to keep going, but i want to turn left at the lights.

    So i setup for my turn when i see this pedestrian halfway across the lane im about the turn into. I also notice that the lights for walking across the intersection are red.

    I dont have time to correct my speed or take a different line into the corner, I had already setup.

    So to avoid hitting her i have to straighten into the corner, locking up the back wheel fishing tailing it to halt about half a meter away from a van in the opposite lane, nearly hitting it.

    Whats the deal with that, would it have been my fault if i had hit her, or was she at fault for crossing a red walking light?

    Im so pissed right now, i try to ride properly all the time, and shit like that shakes me up. She didnt even stop to ask if i was alright, or apologise.
  2. I don't think you can be held accountable for hitting and hurting her in that situation if she was in the wrong.

    More interesting is the fact that she's unlikely to be liable for your cost of repairs if you stack your bike trying to avoid her as she jaywalks.

    But I don't know that for sure. You'd probably have some sort of civil recourse.
  3. According to the Vic traffic handbook:

    Turning vehicles *must* always give way to pedestrians who are crossing the road they are turning into (whether or not there is a green 'walking figure' facing the pedestrian).
  4. On the flip side bicycles must give way to vehicles turning left. IE they can't overtake to the left of a vehicle turning left. They must go around the right hand side.
    Many times I've had irate bikers raise a hand and shout when I've turned left in the car and not given way.
    Shame those dickheads don't have to actually know the road rules...
    Talk about double standards.
  5. Tricky one but there is some part of the law that clearly states you're not supposed to enter/go through an intersection unless it's clear to do so. Bit like hitting someone running a red light, yes they're in the wrong - but so are you since you didn't check if it was clear. Had you hit them the pedestrian might have got a fine for jaywalking - but I reckon you probably would have wound up being done for careless driving.
  6. i did the same thing recently around the corner from my work, set up for the nice wide sweeper into a rarely used street and a f*#ing huge freight truck is taking up half of the lane :evil: i'd left some margin for error and could correct but twas annoying (fancy having to share the road with others!) :p
  7. A probable lack of situational awareness in my opinion. It doesn't matter a damn who was at fault, if you had hit the truck you would still have hit the truck. Ride as if there is a truck lurking round every corner, and a child waiting to run in front of you.......cos sometimes there will be, and sometimes both at the same time. Never carry more speed than will allow you to stop within your clear field of vision, and always slow for crossings, because not all of them even have 'little man' lights, and pedestrians have absolute right of way. It ain't fair, but it is smart.....and dumb hurts.
  8. red pedestrian light? clearly you shouldn't be worried about it being your fault.

    that being said.. you were clearly riding faster then your visibility allowed (and locking the rear brake in an emergency is a bit of a noob thing to do)
  9. Great, so any idiot can cross the road regardless of whether they have a green man or not.........and we have to stop?

    Grrrr :evil:
  10. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think that in the end that's an unhelpful question.
    I think we all spend too much time concerning ourselves with "who's in the wrong?", when ultimately the only thing that really matters is "what can I/should I do in this situation?" The law isn't going to save you (or me) - only our own wits.
    I *try* not to worry about what other people do these days (not easy I know :roll: ), and just try to examine each situation from the point of view of how I could better have dealt with it. After all, there's never going to be a shortage of idiots, so just treat it as an ongoing challenge to find the best ways to keep out of trouble. :wink:
  11. The law tends to favour pedestrians simply because many pedestrians can't be expected to obey road laws. Sure most adults should know when and where to cross the road safely (though many don't) - but if you hit and kill a kid that just ran across the road don't expect the ruling to ever go in your favour (especially if the media gets involved).
  12. I had a pedestrian step out on me a couple of weeks ago. Left hand turn and she was a few metres around the corner standing on the kerb. I knew she was there, came down through the gears, made some noise, indicator on, and I swear she looked at me. Half way through the corner she steps out onto the road. I was so bloody surprised I couldn't find the horn! She jumped back when I yelled at her through my helmet, so I was pretty close to hitting her. She was on a bloody mobile. Learned to never assume they see you, even if they're looking right at you.

  13. Ahh well you see it annoys us when you overtake and slam it hard left into the corner after braking hard when we are doing 40 kph and 6 inches behind you. Hell we must have been close for you to have heard the shout. Just a teeny bit rude. But if you feel you must kill/hurt/scare the shit out of someone to save 1.2 secs on your commute dont complain if it happens to you
  14. be very carfull making assumptions on this one, because i am prety sure if there is a bike lane marked you will be deemed to be crossing a lane, and therrefore the cyclist has Right of way
  15. if you were riding at a legal speed and the pedestrian walked out onto your path, the courts would probably say the pedestrian was contributory negligent to the damage. It depends on so many factors though, including speed, what area you are in etc etc

    there was a case where a lady was driving at like 30km in a 40km/h school zone. She managed to hit a kid and got sued. Court said she was guilty/negligent, she appealed and she won, court said the act of her driving slow was enough of a precaution considering she was 10km/h under the limit.

    sorry just did a crim law exam :p
  16. Don't be sorry, it is good to get real world examples.
    But it really sucks that you are forced through an appeals process because our leagle system is so damned ambiguos.
  17. That's the way it is in California, USA. A pedestrian can bring a 4 lane freeway screeching to a halt if he decides to cross.

    Seems that somehow over there, despite the USA's general affection for weird behavior, that the driving culture is such that it understands that pedestrians are infinitely more vulnerable when faced with a few tonnes of steel bearing down on them, and while it might annoy the drivers that they have to stop to avoid killing people, the drivers do generally understand well enough that running over people with vehicle is "a bad thing" (TM), and so will stop at the drop of a hat when some pedestrian walks out in front of them, regardless of if it's on a freeway or in some suburban back-street.
  18. I suppose we're right when we say we should be looking out for everything regardless of who's fault it is, because at the end of the day, we get hurt all the same, fault or no fault of ours.

    Looking back now i probably should have taken the corner slower to give me some avoidance time in the case such as a pedestrian walking out.

    I was taking the corner safely, but I guess i've learnt something new without coming out with an injury.
  19. The above example is a little extreme. In most cases the cyclists had plenty of time to see my indicator. Regardless they should know the laws and how to approach a vehicle turning left. If they fail to do so and plow into the side of my car, not only will they be at fault, they'll also be paying for my damages.

    There is only one situation when cars must give way to cycles when turning left and that is when the bike lane is painted green at the intersection.

  20. Hmmm the last time this happened to me in the rain.. I braked hard as hell and just missd his indicator as he turned left. I was doing 45 and there wasnt a foot in it. Chased him down the street and up his drive and he said "well you shouldnt have been going so fast"

    my experience is that most car drivers way underestimate cyclists speed

    As far as I know that makes no difference. THe law actually states something like cyclists must not overtake on the left of turning traffic. ie if you are turning I cant come up on your left. And personaly I wouldnt stuff anyone up just cos I could. The law doesnt say you can run me off the road while overtaking and turning if you have your indicator on. Its actually not that silly. You assume that it does and you might have a real shock coming in that court case,. I have a mate who was hit by a p plater in a new Excel. And the Scapin he was on ended up costing her just slightly more than she paid for the Excel